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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
62. So which story is more likely?
Thu Jun 5, 2014, 08:08 PM
Jun 2014

Everyone agrees there is deadly fighting involving armed factions as well as military-police regulars in eastern Ukraine, with casualties probably at 1,000 at this point, shelling, tanks, attack helicopters, RPGs, etc.

Like it or not, Moscow is claiming refugees are fleeing across the border.

And Kiev is claiming they're not.

One of them is lying. Which story is more plausible on its face?

If they have to ask a disgraced oligarch for evidence jakeXT Jun 2014 #1
Putin's funny. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #2
Your first link is prior to 16 Mar 2014 dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #3
Yeah, and *this* is from March 3, 2014. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #4
I can only suggest you forward that to Kerry dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #6
Kerry's not the one whose credibility is suspect here. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #7
The credibility issue dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #8
And Putin's credibility issue is that he flat out lied about Russian military in Crimea. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #30
+ 1 n/t MBS Jun 2014 #32
And you expected anyone is a war to tell the Truth????? happyslug Jun 2014 #64
Sounds like a reasonable request, SamKnause Jun 2014 #5
So Kerry himself lacks this evidence? JackRiddler Jun 2014 #9
Americans use unsecured jamzrockz Jun 2014 #10
One might guess that the Russians are the one's with the superior spy network karynnj Jun 2014 #12
NYT: “In Ukraine War, Kremlin Leaves No Fingerprints.”“Mr. Putin may not be directing these events.. jakeXT Jun 2014 #27
The problem for Putin is that his credibility's been totally shot after Crimea Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #29
Help me out, what's the name for your fallacy? JackRiddler Jun 2014 #49
Actually in the US legal system a person's prior lies can be used to impeach their crediblity... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #86
This is not a legal proceeding and you are sticking to the fallacy. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #87
If you bothered to read my posts upthread.... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #88
It is relevant to add that Kerry is meeting with Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister karynnj Jun 2014 #11
Vladimir Putin to Dubya, 2008: Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #13
I read that Article, and I seriously has doubt on the author's position. happyslug Jun 2014 #61
Informative & appreciated JackRiddler Jun 2014 #63
I hate to say this the Communists of Today's Russia are the most progressive group happyslug Jun 2014 #65
I can't speak for the author's ultimate opinion... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #85
Kerry, Lavrov agree Ukraine should not be 'pawn' in East-West power struggle bemildred Jun 2014 #14
Lugansk residents granted humanitarian corridor to flee Ukraine bemildred Jun 2014 #15
Russia Says Thousands Crossing Border to Flee Ukraine bemildred Jun 2014 #16
If nothing else Russia's got a better National Anthem anyway. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #24
I'm just glad they are letting them out. bemildred Jun 2014 #26
Couldn't agree more dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #31
I always found it odd that the RF would re-adopt an old Soviet/Stalinist relic as its anthem. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #37
Was because it because its a hymn dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #43
I dunno. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #45
That you would make this comparison speaks volumes. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #60
Speaks volumes to what? Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #83
You prefer the first words of the tune we call the Star Spangle Banner? happyslug Jun 2014 #66
So much better! JackRiddler Jun 2014 #72
I was surprised by "Die Wacht am Rhein" in Casablanca, but it seems it was a copyright issue jakeXT Jun 2014 #79
You completely missed my point. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #84
Germans still singing the Deutschlandlied. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #89
The Deutschlandlied was written long before that country's darkest era. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #91
Over the Soviet/Russian anthem? Absolutely. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #82
So which story is more likely? JackRiddler Jun 2014 #62
I have no doubt people are fleeing. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #67
So then this story is a case... JackRiddler Jun 2014 #68
They are all spewing bullshit, if that's your point. bemildred Jun 2014 #70
Harper, Obama opposed to G7 leaders meeting with Putin bemildred Jun 2014 #17
Tough. dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #19
Harper says Putin should be at D-Day ceremonies but also grasp strong message bemildred Jun 2014 #20
France is going to train Russian sailors in about two weeks jakeXT Jun 2014 #25
Yes. bemildred Jun 2014 #28
reminds me of the penny-dreadful crap that helped whip up WWI MisterP Jun 2014 #46
Selling papers and selling war ? jakeXT Jun 2014 #50
for the 1895 campaign he showed Portsmouth's town hall heaped with the dead MisterP Jun 2014 #57
Harper is totally the ally you want. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #52
Left Out of G7, Putin Wishes World Leaders 'Bon Appetit' bemildred Jun 2014 #18
Bit like saying dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #22
You cannot threaten people with things they are not afraid of. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #23
Obama, Cameron give Putin a month to meet Ukraine conditions, or face further sanctions bemildred Jun 2014 #21
get away from the border.....make sure no arms cross the border /nt jakeXT Jun 2014 #33
Fat chance. Can we close our border? nt bemildred Jun 2014 #39
Who are the masked mercenaries in Ukraine? bemildred Jun 2014 #34
Ingushetia leader: There are Ingush volunteers among Luhansk, Donetsk militants dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #55
Yep. Volunteers. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #59
Closest analogy that comes to mind dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #76
There are people who like war, war groupies. bemildred Jun 2014 #77
Eastern Ukraine Has Been a Mafia State for Years. Can Kiev Break the Cycle of Violence? bemildred Jun 2014 #35
Concerns about possible escalation of Ukraine crisis have risen -ECB bemildred Jun 2014 #36
They sent all those 'fighters' From Ukraine back to Russia. Why did russia accept their dead?. Sunlei Jun 2014 #38
Cameron and Putin clash in tense face-to-face talks in Paris bemildred Jun 2014 #40
Will it be more than one armed battle group ? jakeXT Jun 2014 #44
I see a bunch of ignorant politicians posturing ineffectively like buffoons. bemildred Jun 2014 #47
Gwynne Dyer: The irony of Vladimir Putin's visit to Normandy bemildred Jun 2014 #48
Yeap.... Xolodno Jun 2014 #54
And that is the "good" outcome. bemildred Jun 2014 #58
Lavrov: Normandy meetings participants should find ways to help settle Ukraine conflict bemildred Jun 2014 #41
Germany's Merkel pledges to help new Ukraine leader, says country will need Russia's help too bemildred Jun 2014 #42
Putin Forever? Russian President's Ratings Skyrocket Over Ukraine bemildred Jun 2014 #51
This explains it all. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #90
Topless feminist stabs wax Putin in France bemildred Jun 2014 #53
Femen stunts highly questionable... JackRiddler Jun 2014 #69
I just thought it fit in with the general tone of the discussion. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #71
What bothers is the "feminist" designation. JackRiddler Jun 2014 #73
OK. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #74
Just ask our group here at DU what they think about "femen" being run by a man using women. jakeXT Jun 2014 #78
so now it's wrong to help separatists a government thinks will support their interests? yurbud Jun 2014 #56
Call me when Syria or Libya wants to be aborbed into the United States. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2014 #81
.they might have chosen that if they knew the other choice was Somalia like chaos yurbud Jun 2014 #92
Ukraine closes border posts after night assaults bemildred Jun 2014 #75
There are also those phone calls from well dressed and armed people who took over- Sunlei Jun 2014 #80
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