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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
4. Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions.
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 03:28 PM
Aug 2017

Both Milibands were London politicians, too. It's not as though Labour could win with a leader who said "I despise London".

And I wasn't saying Scottish Labour should have a leader who's a lapdog to the UK Labour leader.

It needs to be led by someone who will defend Scotland and Scottish voters at every turn. That goes without saying.

By the same token, it should never have a leader who colluded in plots to make sure Labour went back to standing for nothing and being meaningless-or who enabled the Scottish and Westminster Tories by forming an electoral pact with them last June. Had she not done those, the Tories would not have enough seats to govern now.

Kezia wasn't fighting for Scotland with either of those actions. She was fighting for the rich against the people, for the insiders against the grassroots.

Nor should it have had, before that, a leader("SLAB" Murphy)who sabotaged his party by having it join an alliance with the Tories and LibDems on the Indyref. Obviously Labour was going to campaign for a "Nae" in that referendum, but it was supposed to do that on its own, making a distinctively Labour case for the idea that it was possible for Scotland to prosper and be progressive within the Union.

As to the miners(I assume this is the EU thing again), Corbyn is walking a tightrope. He was solidly Remain, appeared at a thousand Remain events during that ref, he clearly wanted Remain to win-it lost because the Tory-dominated Remain campaign was a total disaster-but the voters spoke. Labour could only regain power if it regained the working-class Northern English voters who voted Leave. If he did what you wanted and fought all out for a second ref, those voters would all go back to voting UKIP and never break with that. He supports soft Brexit(he was never in line with Theresa May's position)because it's essentially the only stance he can take and hold Labour together. Most of the Northern working-class voters who did vote Leave(there were a handful of Northern areas where Remain prevailed, and I'm glad there were-I'd have voted Remain on anti-xenophobia grounds) did so because it was, for them, the only way to vote against thirty-six years of unionbusting, austerity, and job loss. They believed there was no way for any of that to change within the EU, and it's largely the fault of the Labour Right, along with the Lib Dems and Tories, that they do-all three of those factions have basically abandoned those people.

If Corbyn fought all-out for a second EU ref, UKIP would instantly be back at 15% in the polls and winning byelections, a restored Tory majority at the next election would be a certainty, and he would look like an antidemocratic elitist-a "London politician".

The only real hope is for everyone to focus first on defeating the Tories as soon as possible, and THEN for people who want a second ref to fight for one. The LibDems can't win the next election(there's no chance of the party being forgiven for its devil's bargain with Cameron), and Corbyn isn't going to be dumped as leader before the next election-it wouldn't help to dump him anyway, because there's no one the anti-Corbynites would accept as his replacement that could ever be popular-that lot still wouldn't allow anyone to the left of Yvette Cooper on the leadership ballot.


I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
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