Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Denzil_DC

(7,216 posts)
18. Well, yes to all that, T_i_B.
Sat Sep 2, 2017, 08:54 AM
Sep 2017

It really depends, in a Scottish context, what you mean by "Corbyn's politics". Up here, they seem to amount to airy promises of delicious pie in the sky when we've already got much of the pie he's offering already on our table, but he doesn't like the cook, so it turns to ashes in his mouth and he strongly discourages others from appreciating it.

Corbyn's bound by party policy, though message discipline from him and others in the UK Shadow Cabinet is often lacking - not least about Brexit! That problem is even more apparent when you throw the Scottish branch office and its motley crew into the mix.

So Corbyn at the moment, even to those who want to project the most favourable interpretation onto his politics, is a creature of contradiction, and whether you give him a pass for that depends on how on board the Corbyn train you are.

He favours nuclear disarmament, but the party's policy is to retain Trident and press ahead with its replacement with a successor system (albeit in some watered-down form that makes even less sense than the full replacement).

He rails against austerity, but Labour's last manifesto projected major continued cuts of the sort he'd slam the SNP for enacting.

I could go on, but I imagine you get my drift, and the article I posted a while back, "Reassessing Corbynism: success, contradictions and a difficult path ahead", covers these sorts of issues and triangulations and convenient obfuscations very well.

One of the main policy tensions between Scottish Labour and the SNP in power has been the question of universal provision of benefits etc. versus means testing. For instance, we have universal free prescriptions, universal free school dinners, etc. ("free" at the point of delivery, of course, as there's no such thing as a free lunch!).

The arguments for universal provision are that they're a lot cheaper and simpler to administer, they avoid stigmatization, and they mean that those who're being asked to contribute more of their taxes to the public pot see something concrete for their money, enhancing social cohesion and reducing resentment at the idea of others getting "something for nothing" (it's not so long ago, after all, that a UK Labour spokesperson was adamant in public that Labour was the party of working families, not dole scroungers). Scottish Labour's main argument seems to boil down to that those who have larger incomes should be penalized.

I'd argue that Scotland's an extreme case of the political fragmentation that afflicts the whole UK. Regions all have different needs and different priorities, and the question is how to cater for those when the bulk of the population and political power is concentrated in the South East.

Some form of federalism is an obvious answer, but our experience and that of Wales and Northern Ireland of devolution hasn't been positive in terms of conflict with both Labour and the Tories' strong centralizing instincts. And the chaos of Brexit means that any such large-scale constitutional changes (probably involving more referendums - aaaaargh!) are going to be punted a long way down the road.

I can't see that preference for centralization improving under Corbyn, not least because he's so obviously and shamelessly out of touch with the situation in Scotland, and I've seen no evidence his grasp of the specific issues in the rest of the UK outside London is much better.

I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
Latest Discussions»Region Forums»United Kingdom»Breaking: Kezia Dugdale ...»Reply #18