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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
21. There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 03:06 AM
Sep 2017

The dilemmas he faces is that even though he is leader and the overall majority of Labour members and paid supporters are on the left, the Blairite party bureaucracy, which has entrenched itself through years of severe restrictions on internal party democracy, is still largely in control of the policy-making apparatus and still has a one-seat majority on the NEC(National Executive Committee, for the benefit of any other North Americans reading this)due to anti-Corbyn fiddling with the resuts, so there are limits, at least until the next couple of party conferences, on the ability of Corbyn and the democratic socialist majority within Labour to establish party policy. My feeling is that it was the party bureaucrats in Westminster and Kezia Dugdale and the Scottish Labour apparatchiks at Holyrood largely setting the policies you AND I(and most of Corbyn's supporters)disliked, and that most of the info Corbyn had on Scotland were filtered through Dugdale. The Labour gains were almost solely due to the promises in the Corbyn stump speech, which was well to the left of official party policy. The bad policies you rightly point out, Denzil, are Blairite holdovers with no support within the party other than the right-wing party bureaucrats and the right-wing MPs who were imposed as candidates by Blair in the Nineties, the ones who don't realize they are only in office because they stand in constituencies that vote Labour no matter what.

Until very recently, Corbyn was unable to move too aggressively to set policy, because there was, right up until polling day, a large faction of bureaucrats and MPs-supported by virtually no one in the rank and file-refusing to accept that seeking to oust the man as leader. It's not Jeremy that's contradictory, it's his party-a massive grassroots majority for socialist and democratic being thwarted repeatedly by a right-wing elitist clique that, in some cases, cares more about avoiding war crimes trials then they do about returning the party that elects or employs them to power or about doing anything to help those Labour exists to stand up for.

Is Jeremy flawless? God no. What I respect about him, though, is that, with his flaws, he is the first UK party leader in decades(I'm counting Nicola Sturgeon as a national, not UK leader here) to actually stand for a positive, idealistic, hopeful sense of life. That's why so many young people(other than in Scotland, where Labour seems to be a youth-free zone-why ELSE would a corporate lobbyist like Owen Smith run ahead there in the leadership race? It's hard to imagine him carrying the day if Labour north of the Tweed weren't mainly a collection of bitter old crooks)respond to him, and I stick with the guy because it's hard to see anything but a return to dreariness and irrelevance for Labour if he were to stand down as leader before internal democracy and grassroots control of the constituency parties and the annual conference were established. Until then, it's either Corbyn or Labour returning to the Harriet Harman era when it stood for nothing and had no reason to exist.



I agree with you on federalism for Scotland-and for much greater home rule powers for Wales as well, and I'd like to see Northern, Southern, Midlands and London regional assemblies for England, all elected by proportional representation. No one to Corbyn's right within the party(and the only people the MPs would allow on a ballot to replace the man would be hard-right sectarian Blairites, no
actual socialists or social democrats would be tolerated by the PLP)would be more decentralist.

I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
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