You stole my line! (Reply #28) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: Not using a condom when you promise to is unacceptable. [View all]

Mon Mar 16, 2015, 01:17 PM

28. You stole my line!

Adding artificial requirements is exactly what you're doing. Nobody is suggesting sex without consent isn't rape. So pretending as much and then arguing from that basis is strawman.

The word "condom" doesn't appear in your cited statute, nor does it appear in the section that defines consent. Nor does the section that defines consent allow for any conditions to be placed on consent. This is what it does say:

(7) "Consent" means that at the time of the act of sexual intercourse or sexual contact there are actual words or conduct indicating freely given agreement to have sexual intercourse or sexual contact.

If two people agree to have sex, then it's not rape. It's just not that complicated.

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Replies to this discussion thread

66 replies	Author	Time	Post
Not using a condom when you promise to is unacceptable. [View all]	Bonobo	Mar 2015	OP
If you consent to have sex with someone provided they use a condom and they don't	PoliticAverse	Mar 2015	#1
I think so, yes.	Bonobo	Mar 2015	#2
It may not meet the strict definition of rape, however, its is, without a doubt, sexual assault.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#5
If wrapping it is a condition for consent then yes, it is.	PeteSelman	Mar 2015	#3
So logically then, it would follow that other conditions not being met would also make it "rape"	Bonobo	Mar 2015	#4
"Would breaking those conditions make it "rape"?" - Those conditions are absurd and unrealistic.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#6
By that logic a woman claiming to be on BC duplicitously is "tantamount to rape"	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#7
I happen to be of the opinion that a women lieing to a man about being on the pill and coexing him..	Veilex	Mar 2015	#9
Not having sex at all is also a choice which hasn't been deprived in this scenario	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#14
"Not having sex at all is also a choice" - I kinda just said that.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#16
I'm not creating a false equivalency, I'm pointing out one	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#17
Your completely missing the point.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#18
Because I don't agree with your false assertion, doesn't mean I'm missing your point	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#19
That you agree or not is irrelevent.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#20
Non-sequitur	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#21
No, that's not a non-sequiter. You're splitting hairs.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#22
Just one sexual assault statute that mentions codom use is fine	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#23
"mentions codom use" - You've added artificial requirements.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#25
You stole my line!	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#28
"If two people agree to have sex, then it's not rape." - except that your ignoring the precondition.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#31
...	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#36
The op isn't about the pill.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#38
It's the exact same standard	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#39
You're on the losing end of an argument so you distract away from it and...	Veilex	Mar 2015	#43
Danth's Law applies well here	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#47
retroactive consent	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#40
Actually...	Veilex	Mar 2015	#42
Getting arrested and being put in jail is not "legal jurisprudence"	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#44
I don't think so.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#46
Your entire argument is nothing but a double standard	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#48
Do you have a case citation for the one case that resulted in jail	JimDandy	Mar 2015	#51
"Do you have a case citation for the one case" - I do not.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#52
There are potential consequences occurring to both parties, but it ain't assault.	Eleanors38	Mar 2015	#66
Condoms protect against AIDS and other STDs, birth control pills do not. They're not equivalent. n/t	prayin4rain	Mar 2015	#60
Which was never the point	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#61
Oh, I thought it had already been determined that framing it as a simple	prayin4rain	Mar 2015	#62
Is "I'm on the pill! Honest!" Rape?	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#8
Nothing about "I'm on the pill! Honest!" stops you from using a condom.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#10
unless youre in a commited relationship and havent been using them at her request b/c she's	Romeo.lima333	Mar 2015	#11
In that scenario, there are bigger things at issue. Namely issues of trust between the two of you.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#12
she wanted to get married and thought this was the way to go about it, i guess	Romeo.lima333	Mar 2015	#13
Some women are in love with the idea of being in love and/or having kids.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#15
A reversible male contraceptive is way overdue.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#33
"A reversible male contraceptive is way overdue." - Totally!	Veilex	Mar 2015	#35
All of the major research on the topic is happening in other countries (of course)	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#41
"All of the major research on the topic is happening in other countries "	Veilex	Mar 2015	#45
Somthing else I've noticed with the notion of the male BC pill...	Veilex	Mar 2015	#57
Exactly. I am convinced that this is the main stumbling block.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#58
Yeah...given the option, I'm pretty sure a heck of alot of men would use it.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#59
What an awful misogynistic comment:	JimDandy	Mar 2015	#53
"Let me educate you" - No, allow me to educate you, ma'am...	Veilex	Mar 2015	#54
Your comment is very clear	JimDandy	Mar 2015	#55
Riiiight... enjoy your own confirmation bias.	Veilex	Mar 2015	#56
You will likely not get an answer to the question.	Behind the Aegis	Mar 2015	#24
That implies sex has value	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#26
As I understand it, petty theft.	Behind the Aegis	Mar 2015	#27
I would not be surprised at all if duplicitously claiming to use BC has been interpreted as a crime	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#29
Arguably, unplanned pregnancy does have a cost.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#30
Yes, consequences tend to have costs associated	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#32
The purpose of condoms and birth control are to mitigate risk.	lumberjack_jeff	Mar 2015	#34
True	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#37
No, I think that it is a crime, or at least a law that should exist	ProudToBeBlueInRhody	Mar 2015	#49
Indeed	Veilex	Mar 2015	#50
How do you envision...	tonedevil	Mar 2015	#63
If either party objects to sex and sex procedes, it's rape	Major Nikon	Mar 2015	#64
Rather simple, isn't it. nt	Bonobo	Mar 2015	#65

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