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[ElboRuum]

10. After seeing that thread in H+M...

I am convinced that it in fact SHOULD BE.

Sorry to anyone that this upsets, I want to discuss issues of all types relevant to me in both a broad general sense and in the many perspectives that are personally relevant to me. It is why I come to DU.

I can do this with minimal interference with every perspective except one: gender. Proceeding from anything but the dogmatism of second-wave (or whatever "wave" it happens to be) feminist perspective is just an invitation for a pile-on. And I believe firmly that there is more in heaven and earth that what is in that philosophy. Bear in mind that I have no issue with any feminist individual on this board, and it is not meant as a slight to those who do embrace that philosophy, my only suggestion is that it is not the only thing or the only way, and we need a place to explore these and other things that directly or indirectly impact, negatively or positively, men's lives.

Men need a place to discuss their issues with freedom from negative interloping from people who disagree that men have any relevant issues, that they need to address them or work through them, or that they should go somewhere else to do it. I know that most of the feminists who have lurked and participated in this group have done so largely productively, understanding that this is "our" place. I thank them profusely for this understanding.

However, given the thread in H+M which just broad-stroked the entire group for the implication that men don't have real issues, that what issues they have are laughable and small and whinging, and that we deserve to be laughed at, I fully suspect that safe haven status is required for this group to be valuable for the purposes it's intended. Regardless of the nonsense in that thread, it is clear that some latitude be extended for the ability to discuss the issue. Several posts in that thread were thought provoking, even if the signal to noise ratio of the thread was quite low.