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In the discussion thread: What is masculinity? [View all]

Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #41)

Fri May 17, 2013, 06:58 PM

42. I think I'd agree that masculinity is mostly if not entirely subjective.

 

Not unlike say, "Muslim". If a person self-identifies as muslim, I think it's primarily incumbent on them to define (especially, but not entirely*, for themselves) what that means.

Some negatively-disposed outside observer might think "muslim" roughly translates to "woman-hating terrorist", but their opinion shouldn't be internalized by muslims generally, because one of three things will occur to those who accept external authority to define the term.
a) it becomes either a self-perpetuating view or
b) a source of self esteem problems for those who want to continue to be muslim but aren't woman-hating terrorists, or
c) it compels moderates Muslims to abandon the faith

I think we've seen this with the term "liberal" and the negative connotations that conservatives have effectively applied to it. Radical liberals want to raise taxes to x% without really worrying overmuch about how much government we really need. Traditional liberals now call themselves "progressives" to avoid the implications of "liberal", and many, many people who hold traditionally liberal (i.e. JFK liberal) views are openly hostile to the term (i.e. "keep your government hands off my Social Security"

When you initially responded to the question, fully half of the defining markers you provided were negative. In my humble opinion, this is exactly what happened to liberals who internalized the definitions provided by others and decided that they weren't actually liberals but were instead "progressives".

The thing is, "progressives" are still vulnerable to the ongoing demonization of the new and improved term.

Back to "masculine". Men have jumped from "masculine" to "chivalrous" to "gentleman" to "feminist" to "feminist ally" in a vain attempt to keep up with social convention as each is denigrated out from under them. I suggest that the very act of doing this is to surrender the primary defining marker of virtuous of masculinity; fidelity to ones principles, even at tangible personal cost.

"not entirely" to me means accepting that others are going to have views but that they're not entitled to be treated as if their view is either valid or correct or acceptable.

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lumberjack_jeff May 2013 OP
galileoreloaded May 2013 #1
ZombieHorde May 2013 #2
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #5
ZombieHorde May 2013 #9
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #13
ZombieHorde May 2013 #41
LineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply I think I'd agree that masculinity is mostly if not entirely subjective.
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #42
Warren DeMontague May 2013 #6
ZombieHorde May 2013 #10
Warren DeMontague May 2013 #14
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #16
ZombieHorde May 2013 #18
radicalliberal Feb 2016 #48
radicalliberal Jul 2016 #50
noamnety May 2013 #3
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #4
seabeyond May 2013 #7
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #8
seabeyond May 2013 #11
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #15
seabeyond May 2013 #17
galileoreloaded May 2013 #20
seabeyond May 2013 #24
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seabeyond May 2013 #30
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seabeyond May 2013 #33
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #21
seabeyond May 2013 #25
Major Nikon May 2013 #44
galileoreloaded May 2013 #19
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #22
galileoreloaded May 2013 #28
lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #47
seabeyond May 2013 #26
ZombieHorde May 2013 #23
seabeyond May 2013 #27
ZombieHorde May 2013 #31
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #34
ZombieHorde May 2013 #35
seabeyond May 2013 #12
MadrasT May 2013 #36
Bonobo May 2013 #37
MadrasT May 2013 #40
Warren DeMontague May 2013 #38
RiffRandell May 2013 #39
HuskiesHowls May 2013 #43
Warren DeMontague May 2013 #45
westerebus May 2013 #46
scubasteve76 Feb 2016 #49
here2help Jul 2016 #51
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