Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
41. My "characterization" comes directly from the sources
Thu Feb 21, 2013, 06:15 PM
Feb 2013
Utilities in Germany, the largest power market and economy in Europe, have increased their use of coal-fired power plants continuously since the beginning of the year, Reuters reports. Analysts now project annual coal-fired power generation in 2012 will increase to 130 million megawatt-hours (MWhs), an increase of 15.5 million MWhs or 13.5 percent over 2011 levels.


German environmental groups are complaining and there are some lawsuits over some of these plants. Germany is having an argument over this, but the government has already accepted that they cannot change the situation unless they are prepared to subsidize the construction and operation of gas plants, which they are considering.

It doesn't have to work out this way in France. It is working out this way in Germany.

Here is an article with links to the German sources, conveniently summarized in English. You can say that what's happening isn't happening, but don't expect anyone to believe you who is interested and following the situation:
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/germanys-energiewende-the-story-so-far/

This is absolutely not the German PLAN, it's just how everything is working out. Wind generation actually fell in 2012. Maybe if they had hooked up the offshore wind farms. But now companies are planning on abandoning that, it seems.
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/germanys-energiewende-the-story-so-far/

The same thing is happening in the UK. There are multiple factors in each case, but the bottom line is that you have to have base power, the new-gen renewables aren't ever going to provide that, and in any case, someday when more storage is worked out they still have to make massive upgrades to the grid. In Germany that has been effectively stopped.

Instead of denying what is happening, Kristopher, perhaps we might discuss the roadblocks to a more effective transition? The Germans do not want this and it was not their intent. It is just the way it is working out. And the problem with the North Sea wind is becoming truly acute - companies are beginning to pull out:
http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=12232
Now maybe the situation is improving due to the Jan 1 offshore liability/cost transfer law:
http://www.germanenergyblog.de/?p=11949

But recent talk about taxing renewable subsidies isn't going to help, and every time one of these deals is made to transfer the costs to the consumer, the future becomes yet more uncertain. In the meantime, industrial companies in Germany are beginning to manufacture their own electricity, which makes the entire funding situation that much more problematic. One of the latest proposals is to impose the EEG surcharge on energy that is produced and consumed by the owner.
Exit economics: The relatively low cost of Germany's nuclear phase-out kristopher Jan 2013 #1
And part of the economics is that German lignite is cheap muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #5
Implication vs reality kristopher Jan 2013 #6
German carbon emissions from electricity generation went up in 2011 muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #7
"greenhouse gas emissions should be of primary interest" kristopher Jan 2013 #9
Uh, no, the German electricity sector is becoming ever more dependent on coal Yo_Mama Feb 2013 #37
Your characterization of that information is untrue. kristopher Feb 2013 #40
My "characterization" comes directly from the sources Yo_Mama Feb 2013 #41
"the German electricity sector is becoming ever more dependent on coal" kristopher Feb 2013 #42
Sup Kris XemaSab Jan 2013 #2
du rec. nt xchrom Jan 2013 #3
Welcome back, n/t CRH Jan 2013 #4
Thank you. nt kristopher Feb 2013 #36
Coal is economical. joshcryer Jan 2013 #8
Unfortunately it is. kristopher Jan 2013 #10
A tax. joshcryer Feb 2013 #11
"Externalize the cost of coal"?? kristopher Feb 2013 #12
I should have said "address the external costs of coal." joshcryer Feb 2013 #13
Think about your "belief" kristopher Feb 2013 #14
You've been saying that for years. joshcryer Feb 2013 #15
Why would people burn coal when it will cost less to use renewables? kristopher Feb 2013 #17
Well, sure, they wouldn't, if it did. joshcryer Feb 2013 #22
Price trends are unequivocal. kristopher Feb 2013 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #16
"all the energy that is economical to use" kristopher Feb 2013 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #19
re: Harris kristopher Feb 2013 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #21
Your second clause is specifically rejected by Harris kristopher Feb 2013 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #27
I didn't think you were being critical kristopher Feb 2013 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #24
"Increase efficiency when energy sources are limiting" kristopher Feb 2013 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author GliderGuider Feb 2013 #29
That's odd, GG. kristopher Feb 2013 #31
I realized I wasn't ready to start discussing this yet, for a variety of reasons. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #32
Well, we have to concede that anti-nuke ignorance, fear, and superstition HAVE NNadir Feb 2013 #33
"anti-nuke ignorance, fear, and superstition HAVE"... kristopher Feb 2013 #34
You can't admit that anti-nuke ignorance/fear/superstition EXIST FBaggins Feb 2013 #35
Even after Fukushima, twice as many French support nuclear power as are against wtmusic Feb 2013 #38
How many want to transition away from nuclear? kristopher Feb 2013 #39
I always thought the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists was written by scientists wtmusic Feb 2013 #43
You ARE the person who was promoting the fictional... kristopher Feb 2013 #44
You have distinct memories of that, do you? wtmusic Feb 2013 #45
That's a very convenient memory lapse kristopher Feb 2013 #46
And a scathing critique it is. wtmusic Feb 2013 #47
You have to admit your standards of what constitute "science" are very subjective kristopher Feb 2013 #48
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Nuclear power and the Fre...»Reply #41