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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
16. Fair enough. I agree with you in principle
Thu Jun 27, 2013, 10:15 PM
Jun 2013

that there is some limit where we can't depend on wind and solar. My sense of that is that with improved grid technology, a wide over-capacity in wind turbine potential (maybe an expected productivity of 50% or 40%), and wide geographic diversification of the solar and wind farms, we should be able to get at least to the 50% renewable level without needing a whole new storage technology.

And we could get to the 80% renewable level if we could rework the ownership / political issues with the coal, gas, nuke, , hydro, and geo plants. If the politics could be changed such that enough of the gas plants could operate mainly as standby power, then we could push wind/solar up to the 80-90% point. That's a heavy lift because those plant operators like the deal they have today. But we could move to a model more like the agricultural plan where farmers receive payments for NOT producing if that is in the best interests of the overall food supply. The same concepts could (theoretically) be applied to private electricity plant operators.

What I am describing will not happen in 5 years, but it could happen over the course of 20 years, and that could have a huge impact on our carbon emissions. And during that same time, we will move a lot of vehicles to electric or hydrogen (made from electricity), which will in turn multiply toe progress on carbon. And this is all within the realm of affordability. It doesn't require consumers to buy products that are ridiculously expensive and it doesn't require massive government subsidies. It requires some short-term support to get it going, but it is economically viable in the long run.

This is just silly. wtmusic Jun 2013 #1
Answer me two questions BlueStreak Jun 2013 #3
I think your implication is that wind and solar will continue their current rate of growth wtmusic Jun 2013 #4
They can expand 1000-fold before hitting any real barriers BlueStreak Jun 2013 #5
A concentrated deployment of wind turbines will never, ever, ever supply 100% of needs. wtmusic Jun 2013 #6
You didn't provide any evidence that wind ower cannot scale up BlueStreak Jun 2013 #7
Peak demand happens at about 7:30 PM wtmusic Jun 2013 #8
Do you understand that electricity is fungible? BlueStreak Jun 2013 #9
Half of the units are stopped because they're either broken, or the wind isn't blowing. wtmusic Jun 2013 #12
That just isn't true BlueStreak Jun 2013 #13
OK, points taken. wtmusic Jun 2013 #14
Fair enough. I agree with you in principle BlueStreak Jun 2013 #16
She didn't provide evidence because there is no evidence. kristopher Jun 2013 #17
Very interesting references BlueStreak Jun 2013 #18
Define "too much capacity" kristopher Jun 2013 #19
People who invest in turbines need to have a reasonable expectation of profits BlueStreak Jun 2013 #21
Quick somebody buy it so it can be shelved for 100 years. nt silvershadow Jun 2013 #2
2016 renewables will be 2X nuclear, also exceeding natgas kristopher Jun 2013 #10
After Record 2012, World Wind Power Set to Top 300,000 Megawatts (300GW) in 2013 kristopher Jun 2013 #11
It really is transformational, and hardly anybody talks about it. BlueStreak Jun 2013 #15
Excellent point. kristopher Jun 2013 #20
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