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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
2. That tells you nothing of the sort
Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:36 PM
Nov 2013

Energy efficiency and renewables are more than adequate. Nuclear is a 'trivial' source of energy providing only 1/6th the final energy that renewables provide. And as you can see from the cost-deployment charts we are at a major turning point in what will be selected going forward.









Just as food for thought, here is the status of world final energy consumption by source.



This is the concept behind calls for energy efficiency (a strategy that is anathema to the coal and nuclear industry because it slashes their profits).

The energy wasted from thermal sources is a very significant factor in understanding the issue of what energy source is doing what. Primary energy measures the total amount of energy that a fuel source yields - no matter whether it is powering our lives (ie electricity or or propulsion for autos) or whether it is waste heat being transferred to our waterways from nuclear plants or heat causing NO2* emissions off the hot engine block of an internal combustion.

An alternative (and most say better) way of looking at the production and use of energy is to measure what is needed and consumed by the actual work being accomplished. For example, an average internal combustion engine (ICE) powered car ejects 85% of the energy content of the gasoline it consumes as heat and only uses 15% for motive power. When we look for alternatives to gasoline do we think biofuels, and duplicate the efficiencies of the gasoline powered ICE or do we focus on batteries and electric motors that have far better efficiencies - typically using 90% of the input energy for locomotion?

Writ large, what does that mean? Take a look at this flow chart and note that the "rejected energy" comprised 58.1 quads of the total 95.1 quads of primary energy used in the US last year. How much was actually used to do the work of the nation? Only 37 quads.



If we look more closely at the various sectors we can see where the major opportunities for energy efficiency improvements are to be found:

Sector: Gross - Useful Energy; Rejected Energy (proportion of useful to rejected)

Transportation: 26.7 - 5.6; 21.1 (21 : 79)
Electric Generation: 38.10 - 12.40; 25.70 (33 : 67)

In sectors where the heat value of the energy is useful we see much higher efficiency
Industrial: 23.9 - 19.1; 4.77 (80 : 20)
Commercial: 8.29 - 5.39; 2.90 (65 : 35)
Residential: 10.60 - 6.9; 3.72 (65 : 35)

Now let's look at the Solar, Wind and Hydro Subset of Electric Generation. These produce electricity directly with insignificant primary energy lost as heat in the generation phase, however they do incur line losses of about 7%.

SolarWindHydro: 4.07 - 3.78; 0.285 (93 : 7)

Let's compare that to
Nuclear: 8.05 - 2.62; 5.43 (33 : 67)

In the US, the our fleet of nuclear reactors (what is it, down to 99 and falling fast?) might have produced 8.05 quads of primary energy, but at about 35% efficiency at the busbar and a further 7% line loss, (8.05q x 0.35 = 2.82q x 0.93) that only equals 2.62 quads actually delivered to the end user for work.

3.78q > 2.62q

See also: http://www.nawindpower.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.11788#utm_medium=email&utm_source=LNH+07-19-2013&utm_campaign=NAW+News+Headlines

Yes, the EIA publish data on expected energy future use AND all sources of energy. happyslug Nov 2013 #1
That tells you nothing of the sort kristopher Nov 2013 #2
Lack of understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics... PamW Nov 2013 #11
Nope kristopher Nov 2013 #13
100% WRONG AGAIN as always!! PamW Nov 2013 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author kristopher Nov 2013 #22
It was EXACTLY the level of journalistic quality that I would have expected from "The Nation". caraher Nov 2013 #3
I don't have a favorite political publication PamW Nov 2013 #7
Well, I think we all get that The Nation is not a technical journal caraher Nov 2013 #17
It's STILL an ERROR PamW Nov 2013 #18
Kerry didn't lie, in fact he was validated by MIT a decade later bananas Nov 2013 #4
More typical anti-nuke "logic" PamW Nov 2013 #8
There are four primary problem area with nuclear technology (not counting social and systems issues) kristopher Nov 2013 #9
We can address those... PamW Nov 2013 #20
"The MIT study chooses "once through" over closed due to cost." - Nope. kristopher Nov 2013 #21
100% WRONG!! PamW Dec 2013 #25
You're morphing your previous failure into yet another failed argument kristopher Dec 2013 #27
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #29
MIT study on Proliferation Resistant Fast Reactor PamW Dec 2013 #30
I'm sure NNSA and MIT didn't have that data. kristopher Dec 2013 #31
I'm SURE NNSA and MIT had that data PamW Dec 2013 #32
The conclusions of both MIT and NNSA refute your claims. kristopher Dec 2013 #33
NOT AT ALL PamW Dec 2013 #34
You've been completely and absolutely refuted kristopher Dec 2013 #35
Non-scientist kristopher is 100% WRONG AGAIN PamW Dec 2013 #36
A "Proliferation Resistant" Reactor is like a "Water Resistant" Watch bananas Dec 2013 #39
OH REALLY????? PamW Dec 2013 #40
PamW wrote: "Iran is seeking NOT a plutonium bomb, but a uranium bomb." bananas Nov 2013 #5
Do you doubt it? PamW Nov 2013 #10
What about the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)? kristopher Nov 2013 #14
You are arguing with the SCIENTISTS!!! PamW Nov 2013 #16
No, I'm quoting the scientists kristopher Nov 2013 #19
WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #23
No, it isn't wrong. kristopher Dec 2013 #24
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #28
DOE: "Virtually any combination of plutonium isotopes...can be used to make a nuclear weapon." bananas Nov 2013 #6
Actualy; the above is NOT true. PamW Nov 2013 #12
No, PamW; Richard Garwin, John Holdren, and President Obama all know you're wrong. bananas Dec 2013 #37
Its a fools errand madokie Dec 2013 #38
BALONEY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #41
No, Pamw, you're wrong again. bananas Dec 2013 #42
Sorry... once again, you've cited something that you simply don't understand. FBaggins Dec 2013 #43
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! PamW Dec 2013 #44
Sorry... once again, you've corrected someone when it's you that's wrong kristopher Dec 2013 #46
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #48
I can read and Selden's language is unambiguous kristopher Dec 2013 #49
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #50
Ah... but not if you read without understanding. FBaggins Dec 2013 #56
CORRECT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #62
bananas and kristopher certainly win on source credibility here caraher Dec 2013 #51
NOPE!! They do NOT!! PamW Dec 2013 #52
Well, it seems you are a liar, traitor or a fool - your choice caraher Dec 2013 #53
NOPE!!! PamW Dec 2013 #55
Nope. FBaggins Dec 2013 #54
EXCELLENT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #58
"If you have any type of plutonium in sufficient quantities you can make a bomb." Selden 2009 kristopher Dec 2013 #59
An we've both explained to you what that means. FBaggins Dec 2013 #60
A clear example of how he was being SLOPPY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #61
More citations on the point of plutonium for weapons kristopher Dec 2013 #63
Non-scientist kristopher MISSES the implicit assumption PamW Dec 2013 #64
"what comes out of an Integral Fast Reactor" kristopher Dec 2013 #65
Yes - I know Harold... PamW Dec 2013 #66
And that brings us full circle kristopher Dec 2013 #67
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #68
Oh look - George Stanford says it TWICE in that interview! bananas Dec 2013 #69
bananas LITANY of ERRORS!! PamW Dec 2013 #70
Evidently bananas does NOT understand... PamW Dec 2013 #71
What's happened to HONESTY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #45
Yes, what happened to honesty? kristopher Dec 2013 #47
Pam - don't worry about him FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #57
The movie was such a blatant farce, I dont know who would waste the energy attacking or defending it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #26
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