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PamW

(1,825 posts)
12. Actualy; the above is NOT true.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:48 PM
Nov 2013

Last edited Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

There are different isotopes of Plutonium; Plutonium-238, Plutonium-239, Plutonium-240, Plutonium-240...

The ONLY isotope that is "fissile" and thereby connotes "bomb fuel" is Pu-239.

If I give you an isotopic mix of Plutonium that contains Pu-238, Pu-240, Pu-242, and NO Pu-239; can you make a weapon out of it?

NOPE; because the only fissile isotope; the only isotope that is bomb fuel; Pu-239; is MISSING.

So you can NOT make a weapon out of it.

So much for the "any mixture" can be used to make a nuclear weapon.

That's a SIMPLIFICATION.

The IFR is a particularly good "actinide burner" in that it burns Pu-239 particularly well; so that there is little Pu-239 in the IFR waste stream.

Do you know why the scientists of the Manhattan Project came up with TWO nuclear weapons designs; "Little Boy" and "Fat Man"? The slender "Little Boy" bomb that destroyed Hiroshima is a "gun-assembled" type and used highly enriched U-235 as bomb fuel.

The "Fat Man" is short and bulbous; it is an "implosion assembled" device that used Plutonium as bomb fuel.

Since it is so difficult to make highly enriched uranium; the Manhattan enrichment effort lasted about 3 years and came up with enough U-235 for only ONE bomb, the "Little Boy" bomb. The reactors at Hanford could make Plutonium at a rate much faster than the enrichment plants at Oak Ridge. So the Manhattan Project pursued BOTH bomb fuels; U-235 and Pu-239.

The Manhattan Project scientists originally planned to use a "gun-assembled" method for the Pu-239 bomb. However, the Hanford reactors first started operation in September 1944, and the first chemical processing to recover Plutonium began Dec 26, 1944 ( see Richard Rhodes book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" ). Los Alamos got their first samples of Hanford-made weapons-grade Plutonium in early 1945.

However, they discovered that Plutonium, even weapons-grade Plutonium WON'T WORK in a gun-assembled device because of the effects of Pu-240:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_design

The implosion method can use either uranium or plutonium as fuel. The gun method only uses uranium. Plutonium is considered impractical for the gun method because of early triggering due to Pu-240 contamination and due to its time constant for prompt critical fission being much shorter than that of U-235

Even weapons-grade Plutonium from Hanford contained too much Pu-240 for a gun assembly method to work.

However, Los Alamos had another assembly method courtesy of a scientist by the name of Seth Neddermeyer. Seth Neddermeyer reasoned that a gun only assembled in ONE dimension; along the gun barrel. Neddermeyer questioned whether one could assemble the bomb in THREE dimensions; an implosion. In essence, an implosion method is "THREE TIMES" faster than a gun method. The implosion method developed by Neddermeyer is fast enough to assemble a bomb with weapons grade Plutonium.

But what if the amount of Pu-240 is greater than in weapons-grade? Just as the amount of Pu-240 in weapons-grade plutonium is too much to allow use of a gun assembly; could an even greater amount of Pu-240 prevent the use of the implosion method?

The answer to that question is YES. The IFR produces Plutonium that is so "contaminated" with Pu-240 that not even Neddermeyer's implosion method can be used.

You can cite GENERALIZATIONS from DOE all you want.

The Lawrence Livermore National Lab weapons scientists stated that in PARTICULAR; that IFR-produced plutonium can NOT be made into nuclear weapons.

That is a scientific TRUTH.

The good thing about science is that it is true, whether or not you believe in it.
--Neil deGrasse Tyson

PamW

Yes, the EIA publish data on expected energy future use AND all sources of energy. happyslug Nov 2013 #1
That tells you nothing of the sort kristopher Nov 2013 #2
Lack of understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics... PamW Nov 2013 #11
Nope kristopher Nov 2013 #13
100% WRONG AGAIN as always!! PamW Nov 2013 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author kristopher Nov 2013 #22
It was EXACTLY the level of journalistic quality that I would have expected from "The Nation". caraher Nov 2013 #3
I don't have a favorite political publication PamW Nov 2013 #7
Well, I think we all get that The Nation is not a technical journal caraher Nov 2013 #17
It's STILL an ERROR PamW Nov 2013 #18
Kerry didn't lie, in fact he was validated by MIT a decade later bananas Nov 2013 #4
More typical anti-nuke "logic" PamW Nov 2013 #8
There are four primary problem area with nuclear technology (not counting social and systems issues) kristopher Nov 2013 #9
We can address those... PamW Nov 2013 #20
"The MIT study chooses "once through" over closed due to cost." - Nope. kristopher Nov 2013 #21
100% WRONG!! PamW Dec 2013 #25
You're morphing your previous failure into yet another failed argument kristopher Dec 2013 #27
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #29
MIT study on Proliferation Resistant Fast Reactor PamW Dec 2013 #30
I'm sure NNSA and MIT didn't have that data. kristopher Dec 2013 #31
I'm SURE NNSA and MIT had that data PamW Dec 2013 #32
The conclusions of both MIT and NNSA refute your claims. kristopher Dec 2013 #33
NOT AT ALL PamW Dec 2013 #34
You've been completely and absolutely refuted kristopher Dec 2013 #35
Non-scientist kristopher is 100% WRONG AGAIN PamW Dec 2013 #36
A "Proliferation Resistant" Reactor is like a "Water Resistant" Watch bananas Dec 2013 #39
OH REALLY????? PamW Dec 2013 #40
PamW wrote: "Iran is seeking NOT a plutonium bomb, but a uranium bomb." bananas Nov 2013 #5
Do you doubt it? PamW Nov 2013 #10
What about the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)? kristopher Nov 2013 #14
You are arguing with the SCIENTISTS!!! PamW Nov 2013 #16
No, I'm quoting the scientists kristopher Nov 2013 #19
WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #23
No, it isn't wrong. kristopher Dec 2013 #24
100% WRONG as ALWAYS!! PamW Dec 2013 #28
DOE: "Virtually any combination of plutonium isotopes...can be used to make a nuclear weapon." bananas Nov 2013 #6
Actualy; the above is NOT true. PamW Nov 2013 #12
No, PamW; Richard Garwin, John Holdren, and President Obama all know you're wrong. bananas Dec 2013 #37
Its a fools errand madokie Dec 2013 #38
BALONEY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #41
No, Pamw, you're wrong again. bananas Dec 2013 #42
Sorry... once again, you've cited something that you simply don't understand. FBaggins Dec 2013 #43
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! PamW Dec 2013 #44
Sorry... once again, you've corrected someone when it's you that's wrong kristopher Dec 2013 #46
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #48
I can read and Selden's language is unambiguous kristopher Dec 2013 #49
WRONG AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #50
Ah... but not if you read without understanding. FBaggins Dec 2013 #56
CORRECT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #62
bananas and kristopher certainly win on source credibility here caraher Dec 2013 #51
NOPE!! They do NOT!! PamW Dec 2013 #52
Well, it seems you are a liar, traitor or a fool - your choice caraher Dec 2013 #53
NOPE!!! PamW Dec 2013 #55
Nope. FBaggins Dec 2013 #54
EXCELLENT!!! PamW Dec 2013 #58
"If you have any type of plutonium in sufficient quantities you can make a bomb." Selden 2009 kristopher Dec 2013 #59
An we've both explained to you what that means. FBaggins Dec 2013 #60
A clear example of how he was being SLOPPY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #61
More citations on the point of plutonium for weapons kristopher Dec 2013 #63
Non-scientist kristopher MISSES the implicit assumption PamW Dec 2013 #64
"what comes out of an Integral Fast Reactor" kristopher Dec 2013 #65
Yes - I know Harold... PamW Dec 2013 #66
And that brings us full circle kristopher Dec 2013 #67
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Dec 2013 #68
Oh look - George Stanford says it TWICE in that interview! bananas Dec 2013 #69
bananas LITANY of ERRORS!! PamW Dec 2013 #70
Evidently bananas does NOT understand... PamW Dec 2013 #71
What's happened to HONESTY!!! PamW Dec 2013 #45
Yes, what happened to honesty? kristopher Dec 2013 #47
Pam - don't worry about him FreakinDJ Dec 2013 #57
The movie was such a blatant farce, I dont know who would waste the energy attacking or defending it NoOneMan Dec 2013 #26
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