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FBaggins

(26,729 posts)
4. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Tue Dec 10, 2013, 04:11 PM
Dec 2013

It's reasonable (though misguided) to look at occurrences that appear to call a supposed 1-in-20,000-year claim into question and challenge the claim of "X level of safety". It does not then become "completely valid" to make up entirely different figures out of whole cloth. You can claim (incorrectly in this case) that history proves a claim to be inaccurate... you cannot use that claimed error to justify calling this nonsense "valid".

It isn't valid to throw up your hands at a lack of data for 3rd generation designs and just make one up (pretending to be charitable). It isn't valid to count meltdowns and any reactor you can find (including the bulk that cannot in any way be labeled as "nuclear catastrophes&quot , but then only count reactor-years for the ~400 commercial power reactors as a comparison. It isn't valid to ignore decades of improvements in design and regulatory oversight and pretend that the earliest experimental reactors' failures tell us something about failure rates for current designs.

He doesn't even try to explain (nor does Shrader-Frechette) how it is that reactor accident rates fell so dramatically as the number of reactors in service climbed so rapidly? Almost all of the incidents that they're counting occurred in the 50s-60s... yet what percentage of the reactor-years have occurred since then?

A few points re: the "black swan" piece:

* - Nine of the reactors on that list were Russian nautical units - nothing like commercial power reactors. Even if it were reasonable to simply divide reactor-years by incidents (it isn't)... naval reactors aren't included in the reactor-year denominator.

This alone shows how ridiculous her claims are (because they rely on the same faulty "a reactor is a reactor is a reactor" risk assessment). Nine (really more like 10-12) Russian naval reactor meltdowns... yet zero meltdowns in USN naval reactors (a couple hundred of them over many thousands of reactor-years of use). I don't think the British, French, Indian or Chinese navies have had a meltdown in their nuclear subs either.

Obviously
, design, experience, operator expertise, etc. do play a role in accident frequency.

* - At least six other units on the list were early experimental or weapon-producing reactors.

* - I'll be charitable and assume that Shrader-Frechette has really poor grammar skills and is not being intentionally dishonest. Her claim that all of these events resulted "in radiation releases, death, and injury" is simply incorrect.

K&R cprise Dec 2013 #1
That's your notion of a "completely valid" argument? FBaggins Dec 2013 #2
Yes, it is. kristopher Dec 2013 #3
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. FBaggins Dec 2013 #4
Some background for those that don't have time to look them up. FBaggins Dec 2013 #5
Schrader-Frechette is DISHONEST PamW Dec 2013 #6
"claim to be a "Professor of Ethics" and then LIE as much as Shrader-Frechette" kristopher Dec 2013 #14
True, there's no surprise that you are defending the indefensible kristopher Dec 2013 #7
Once again... FBaggins Dec 2013 #8
I don't need to. kristopher Dec 2013 #10
Of course you do. FBaggins Dec 2013 #11
I'm not saying it, an ethicist is saying it. kristopher Dec 2013 #12
She didn't write the OP. FBaggins Dec 2013 #13
Nonsense? kristopher Dec 2013 #15
Yep FBaggins Dec 2013 #16
No I believe that your use of that criteria is fraudulent. kristopher Dec 2013 #17
It's "specifically mentioned" FBaggins Dec 2013 #18
She isn't "immunizing" anything. kristopher Dec 2013 #19
Misuse???? PamW Dec 2013 #9
Yeah... kristopher Dec 2013 #20
NOT IMPRESSED in the SLIGHTEST!!! PamW Dec 2013 #22
The details about how the Nuclear Industry is misleading kristopher Dec 2013 #21
kick for reference kristopher Dec 2013 #23
kick for reference kristopher Dec 2013 #24
Unscientific SIMPLISTIC analysis.. PamW Dec 2013 #25
Classical probability (i), relative-frequency probability (ii), subjective probability (iii) kristopher Dec 2013 #26
Common ERROR in calculating probabilities PamW Dec 2013 #27
"MIT assessors were guilty of a massive ‘overconfidence’ bias toward nuclear safety" kristopher Dec 2013 #28
Repeat: "MIT assessors were guilty of a massive ‘overconfidence’ bias toward nuclear safety" kristopher Feb 2014 #29
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