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OKIsItJustMe

(19,937 posts)
44. Pick your scientist
Fri Mar 25, 2016, 12:55 PM
Mar 2016

I think most of us would agree that James Hansen has been right on top of things when it comes to climate change.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/03/nuclear-power-paves-the-only-viable-path-forward-on-climate-change

[font face=Serif][font size=5]Nuclear power paves the only viable path forward on climate change[/font]

[font size=4]To solve the climate problem, policy must be based on facts and not prejudice. Alongside renewables, Nuclear will make the difference between the world missing crucial climate targets or achieving them[/font]

James Hansen, Kerry Emanuel, Ken Caldeira and Tom Wigley
Thursday 3 December 2015 13.00 GMT

[font size=3]All four of us have dedicated our scientific careers to understand the processes and impacts of climate change, variously studying ocean systems, tropical cyclones, ice sheets and ecosystems as well as impacts on human societies. We have used both climate models and geological records of past climates to better understand lessons from warmer periods in the Earth’s history and investigate future scenarios.

We have become so concerned about humanity’s slow response to this challenge that we have decided we must clearly set out what we see as the only viable path forward. As scientists we do not take advocacy positions lightly, but we believe the magnitude of climate change now presents an unprecedented moral challenge that compels us to speak out.



Nuclear power, particularly next-generation nuclear power with a closed fuel cycle (where spent fuel is reprocessed), is uniquely scalable, and environmentally advantageous. Over the past 50 years, nuclear power stations – by offsetting fossil fuel combustion – have avoided the emission of an estimated 60bn tonnes of carbon dioxide. Nuclear energy can power whole civilisations, and produce waste streams that are trivial compared to the waste produced by fossil fuel combustion. There are technical means to dispose of this small amount of waste safely. However, nuclear does pose unique safety and proliferation concerns that must be addressed with strong and binding international standards and safeguards. Most importantly for climate, nuclear produces no CO2 during power generation.

To solve the climate problem, policy must be based on facts and not on prejudice. The climate system cares about greenhouse gas emissions – not about whether energy comes from renewable power or abundant nuclear power. Some have argued that it is feasible to meet all of our energy needs with renewables. The 100% renewable scenarios downplay or ignore the intermittency issue by making unrealistic technical assumptions, and can contain high levels of biomass and hydroelectric power at the expense of true sustainability. Large amounts of nuclear power would make it much easier for solar and wind to close the energy gap.

…[/font][/font]



Joe Romm disagrees:
https://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/01/07/3736243/nuclear-power-climate-change/
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Why James Hansen Is Wrong About Nuclear Power[/font]

by Joe Romm Jan 7, 2016 8:00 am

[font size=3]Climatologist James Hansen argued last month, “Nuclear power paves the only viable path forward on climate change.” He is wrong.

As the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA) and International Energy Agency (IEA) explained in a major report last year, in the best-case scenario, nuclear power can play a modest, but important, role in avoiding catastrophic global warming if it can solve its various nagging problems — particularly high construction cost — without sacrificing safety.

Hansen and a handful of other climate scientists I also greatly respect — Ken Caldeira, Tom Wigley, and Kerry Emanuel — present a mostly handwaving argument in which new nuclear power achieves and sustains an unprecedented growth rate for decades. The one quantitative “illustrative scenario” they propose — “a total requirement of 115 reactors per year to 2050 to entirely decarbonise the global electricity system” — is far beyond what the world ever sustained during the nuclear heyday of the 1970s, and far beyond what the overwhelming majority of energy experts, including those sympathetic to the industry, think is plausible.

They ignore the core issues: The nuclear power industry has essentially priced itself out of the market for new power plants because of its 1) negative learning curve and 2) inability to avoid massive delays and cost overruns in market economies. This is doubly problematic because the competition — renewable power, electricity storage, and energy efficiency — have seen steady, stunning price drops for a long time.

…[/font][/font]



Romm does not advocate shutting down current plants.


http://bos.sagepub.com/content/71/6/52.full
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Joe Romm: Why nuclear power will not be the whole solution to climate change[/font]

[font size=4]Abstract[/font]

[font size=3]In this interview, physicist and climate change blogger Joe Romm speaks with the Bulletin’s Dawn Stover about whether nuclear energy will be a major player in efforts to mitigate global warming. Romm points to economics as a limiting factor for nuclear power, at least until the world grows more desperate to reduce carbon pollution. He explains the reasons why nuclear energy is expensive in the United States and Europe but expanding in China. Although pessimistic about nuclear, Romm is optimistic that the world has reached a turning point for the adoption of renewable energy generation and storage technologies, energy efficiency, and carbon abatement policies.



BAS: What role do you see for nuclear power in the response to climate change? How big of a player should it be?

Romm: If one is going to avoid catastrophic warming and keep things below 2 degrees Celsius, which is certainly a great challenge, then you can’t rule out any carbon-free source. New nuclear plants are very expensive, which is why there has been exceedingly little construction in any market economy. Beyond China and India, you just don’t see a lot of sales, so I think the challenge for nuclear will be to maintain its market share. In the most optimistic projections, it can expand a little bit in the coming decades, but that will require a fair amount of sales because as plants get older in theory they have to be decommissioned. At some point, the world is going to get considerably more desperate to reduce carbon pollution than it is now. When we hit that phase, whatever is plausible and affordable and scalable is going to see massive deployment. To the extent that all these countries are already making serious commitments, then certainly people will take a second look at nuclear. If it could get its act together and come up with a modular design that was standardized and not too expensive, it might be able to see some growth.



BAS: What sort of portfolio will be needed to meet the Paris targets? According to the wedge theory—which says that a combination of strategies can together stabilize the climate—we’d need to triple the world’s current nuclear capacity just to cut emissions by one wedge, out of eight needed.

Romm: The International Energy Agency teamed up with the Nuclear Energy Agency to release a report earlier this year on their optimistic scenario, in which nuclear power sees modest growth in its share. Nuclear is not going to be the big contributor to the solution, if by big one means more than 10 percent; 80 to 90 percent of what we do is going to be other stuff. I am not in favor of shutting down nuclear plants, by the way. I don’t think that makes sense unless a plant isn’t safe.

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So very sad when your/our only remaining hope of survival is RW science denial. merrily Mar 2016 #1
That's a choice. If the people choose Bernie instead Lorien Mar 2016 #3
I didn't want to raise that in a group that may wish to limit discussion to the environment/energy. merrily Mar 2016 #5
how fucking insane is it that the GOP is actually endangering the survival of humanity with their Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #11
Ok, as long as so many others are going there: merrily Mar 2016 #14
That was the most important answer from any candidate. The most. glinda Apr 2016 #51
The GOP is a money worshiping death cult. sulphurdunn Mar 2016 #19
I couldn't have put it better myself Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #22
They want to rush the Second Coming. glinda Apr 2016 #52
Senator Sanders completely and totally rejects the preferred route of addressing climate change... NNadir Mar 2016 #21
please explain this better-- you aren't making sense Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #23
Sanders is anti-nuclear; Nnadir is pro-nuclear. QED (n/t) Nihil Mar 2016 #25
OK. Thanks Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #33
If you opened the paper, it might make better sense. NNadir Mar 2016 #29
I did open it, but there was nothing in it about Sanders Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #32
What "unique risks" are you talking about? NNadir Mar 2016 #35
you've got to be fucking kidding me Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #37
I am not kidding. The environment and climate change trump all other issues with me. NNadir Mar 2016 #39
I would also ask, since you claim that there is "conflicting science" on this subject... NNadir Mar 2016 #40
I don't read the primary scientific literature on nuclear energy/power, no. Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #41
And the evidence for his "belief" is what? Since you are neither an engineer nor an energy... NNadir Mar 2016 #42
Bernie says he listens to the scientists on climate change... so why aren't they telling him Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #43
Pick your scientist OKIsItJustMe Mar 2016 #44
great-- thanks! Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #45
Joe Romm is not really a primary research scientist. He's a "scientist" dragged out by... NNadir Apr 2016 #50
I think I made it pretty clear that I regard climate change as the issue that trumps all others. NNadir Mar 2016 #48
I don't understand your dismissive attitude at all Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #49
He claims to have invented a nuclear reactor in his basement... kristopher Apr 2016 #54
thanks-- I'm glad I'm not the only one who was having an issue with what NNadir said Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #57
Who are you supporting then? glinda Apr 2016 #53
Ms. Clinton. NNadir Apr 2016 #55
lol SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2016 #47
If they admit it's real - they're screwed. Plucketeer Mar 2016 #16
In general, their predictions are correct. We either pay attention or ultimately ladjf Mar 2016 #2
Bernie has stated that climate change is the greatest threat faced by humanity Lorien Mar 2016 #4
Yes. And has he tied the unbridled capitalism directly to the climate change? ladjf Mar 2016 #6
I'm sure he knows... but if he questioned capitalism more than he has already Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #13
At this point I just want to interject a comment or two. ladjf Mar 2016 #17
Capitalism is not the cause. It is a symptom of much that is defective in human nature Binkie The Clown Mar 2016 #20
You are exactly correct. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just chose ladjf Mar 2016 #24
exactly.... and I fucking hate the media for not even mentioning this Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #12
The increasing activity of organized humanity The2ndWheel Mar 2016 #15
Problem is, all those predictions have proven not as fast and not as bad as reality is showing us. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2016 #18
Hoping pscot Mar 2016 #7
It used to be infrequent flooding. Now it is all the time... jtuck004 Mar 2016 #8
We need to have the governments help in this change but jwirr Mar 2016 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #10
Declare WAR against climate change.. Newkularblue Mar 2016 #26
It is funny how we want things to stay the same though The2ndWheel Mar 2016 #27
+1000 Binkie The Clown Mar 2016 #28
Don't lose hope Newkularblue Mar 2016 #30
Which is the one thing we can't seem to do The2ndWheel Mar 2016 #31
Granted, our imagination and abillity to invent appears nearly limitless. But... Binkie The Clown Mar 2016 #34
Absolutely The2ndWheel Mar 2016 #36
This is not a radical departure from his earlier work OKIsItJustMe Mar 2016 #38
Climate change and the sixth global mass-extinction event is happening now SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2016 #46
The book Delphinus Apr 2016 #56
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