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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: “What must be said” by Günter Grass [View all]shira
(30,109 posts)153. Well, I don't expect Leftists to side with Waffen SS nazis...
Last edited Mon Apr 9, 2012, 06:35 PM - Edit history (5)
...and spew anti-Israel (anti-Jewish) hate in the same manner that the far right, neo-nazi fascists do.
That should be the least that sane rational people should expect of the International Left.
-------
Speaking of the International (rightwing) Left, here's an article from Yossi Gurvitz (the guy you defended for seeing the light and turning atheist):
One of the phenomena characterizing the coverage of the J14 protests from the beginning was the long faces of a significant number of notable international peace activists. But
but
but youre not talking about the occupation, they demanded of the marching Israelis. They were soundly ignored, the protest became a mass success, and they became much more bitter.
At one point it was during the third or fourth week of the protests one of them wrote it was a struggle about the price of cottage cheese. I politely invited him to join Netanyahus PR team. He was gravely insulted, and I sincerely hope he wont forgive me; yet the claims of many international activists against J14 were greatly similar to those of Netanyahus PR. We were told its the protest of people living in luxury, who fail to deal with the only real thing around here. Netanyahus bureau would call it The Second Independence War/The Second Zionist War/The Great War against the Dark Palestinian Conspiracy; the international activists just call it by that much more common name, the occupation.
As the protest grew stronger, they grew ever more bitter, spending much of their time mocking it. This behaviour raises two questions: One, just what sort of a leftist spends so much energy on opposing a protest intended to bring about a social-democratic regime, which did much to bring together Jews and Palestinians, and the only protest in the last decade at least which presented to a crowd of several hundred thousand Jews Palestinian speakers. The second question is: Just what the hell happened to your sense of solidarity? Why cant you show some good will towards people who stood by your side in the West Bank, and consumed alongside you bulk quantities of CS gas?
The depressing answer is were not dealing with leftists, but rather with Palestinian right-wingers. They suffer from tunnel-vision: All they see is the occupation. As if there wasnt an Israel beyond it, as if people did not live and breath and love and die here, who had other issues on their mind. The never-ceasing demand from J14 to speak about the occupation, one begins to suspect, is intended for one thing only: Division of the protest movement. Then well be pure and just again. Admittedly, therell be only about a dozen of us, but ideological purity should conquer all.
At one point it was during the third or fourth week of the protests one of them wrote it was a struggle about the price of cottage cheese. I politely invited him to join Netanyahus PR team. He was gravely insulted, and I sincerely hope he wont forgive me; yet the claims of many international activists against J14 were greatly similar to those of Netanyahus PR. We were told its the protest of people living in luxury, who fail to deal with the only real thing around here. Netanyahus bureau would call it The Second Independence War/The Second Zionist War/The Great War against the Dark Palestinian Conspiracy; the international activists just call it by that much more common name, the occupation.
As the protest grew stronger, they grew ever more bitter, spending much of their time mocking it. This behaviour raises two questions: One, just what sort of a leftist spends so much energy on opposing a protest intended to bring about a social-democratic regime, which did much to bring together Jews and Palestinians, and the only protest in the last decade at least which presented to a crowd of several hundred thousand Jews Palestinian speakers. The second question is: Just what the hell happened to your sense of solidarity? Why cant you show some good will towards people who stood by your side in the West Bank, and consumed alongside you bulk quantities of CS gas?
The depressing answer is were not dealing with leftists, but rather with Palestinian right-wingers. They suffer from tunnel-vision: All they see is the occupation. As if there wasnt an Israel beyond it, as if people did not live and breath and love and die here, who had other issues on their mind. The never-ceasing demand from J14 to speak about the occupation, one begins to suspect, is intended for one thing only: Division of the protest movement. Then well be pure and just again. Admittedly, therell be only about a dozen of us, but ideological purity should conquer all.
http://972mag.com/time-for-a-changing-of-the-guard/21616/
Gurvitz didn't go far enough. The only kind of "Leftists" who'd refuse to stand side-by-side with Leftist Jews in a social protest are in fact rightwing anti-Semites who don't believe Israel's Leftists are good enough to be their allies.
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It is a very good poem, period. Deviate from the poem if you must and you make his point.
Jefferson23
Apr 2012
#2
Notice your use of the past tense, as opposed to Shira for whom you are running interference.
JackRiddler
Apr 2012
#116
Bush and Obama have both had to resist an Israeli push to start a war on Iran.
JackRiddler
Apr 2012
#150
I'm not an "Israel hater"...just a critic of what that state's government has done
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#99
Ehud Barak offered far more than Rabin was willing to concede just 5 years prior.
shira
Apr 2012
#100
Yeah...but that's largely due to the fact that he's STILL Bibi's defense minister
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#101
I don't answer meaningless questions. You definitely do not represent the "International Left" --
JackRiddler
Apr 2012
#151
You mean those more concerned with hardline ideological purity as compared to
Ruby the Liberal
Apr 2012
#158
the same could be asked of you why do need to believe that he volunteered for the SS?
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#44
It was in the same autobiography that he revealed that he was drafted into the SS Panzer unit
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#51
"I don't believe anything he says" so then why bring up his autobiography? n/t
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#55
It said he'd concealed it for decades, not that he'd been a member for decades
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#58
The fact that Grass devoted the next sixty years to confronting Germany's Nazi history
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#57
Other than daring to call out Bibi the Infallible on his demands for slaughter
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#92
Grass whitewashed Iran's hostility towards Israel, its support for terror/rockets...
shira
Apr 2012
#96
of course on the flip side of that one could say that Israel has been in a proxy war against Iran
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#134
ah so Leftish Brit and I are agreeing with Stormfront that's nice to know thanks n/t
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#45
I believe it is a fair bet, that he'll not be concerned of your opinion..considering his
Jefferson23
Apr 2012
#13
They're allowed to have an opinion about someone's reaction of a review...
Violet_Crumble
Apr 2012
#16
Iran believes it's about Jews. It's why they fund and arm Hamas and Hezbollah...
shira
Apr 2012
#111
I'm sure anyone who's the slightest bit rational would agree it's not antisemitic...
Violet_Crumble
Apr 2012
#30
What about it? That it's not at all antisemitic or bigoted in any way whatsoever? n/t
shira
Apr 2012
#82
what kind of peace deal oh and what happens to nonJewish Israeli's in the Jewish state?
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#87
shira your reply so full of false accusations that I can only come to the conclusion
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#94
and yet still more accusations and avoidance, Lebanon, Haneen Zoabi ......blame anyone else
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#103
ah so I do not meet your expectation by placing all the blame on Lebanon and Hamas
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#124
shira that is why I support a Palestinian state you can point the finger and the blame all you want
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#171
this is one of the most perverted viewpoints i have read in my entire life......
pelsar
Apr 2012
#165
Perverted and antisemtic? how classy of you however polls have shown that half
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#166
a bit of an exaggeration so now you accuse me of claiming the Israeli's are commiting genocide?
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#170
pelsar it is you who called me antisemtic a few posts back and not for the first time either
azurnoir
Apr 2012
#173
I get what yr trying to claim, but even if you'd said that it's still not antisemitism...
Violet_Crumble
Apr 2012
#31
Is it really that difficult for you to reconcile that Israel IS NOT a signer to NPT???
Jefferson23
Apr 2012
#21
( 1) No, there are never enough ? I can fit in after reading your twisted understanding of
Jefferson23
Apr 2012
#27
Oh, I forgot. He's not only a Nazi, but a David Duke clone! How forgetful of me!
Violet_Crumble
Apr 2012
#71
Even if that were the case, it would not equate to becoming a bigot against people of that faith
Ken Burch
Apr 2012
#74
Just FYI. There are a HELL of a lot of posters on DU who were brought up in some religion
Crunchy Frog
Apr 2012
#175
It would be an excellent thing if all people freed themselves from faith-based religion.
JackRiddler
Apr 2012
#139
The point is that your attempted character assassination on Yossi Gurvitz is irrelevant.
JackRiddler
Apr 2012
#147
Your opinion on Grass is dumber than dumb and how callous of you but thanks for the kick. n/t
Jefferson23
Apr 2012
#167