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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: One map that puts America's gun violence epidemic in perspective [View all]gejohnston
(17,502 posts)18. just many things
I wouldn't know. Are pot smokers insisting on "open carry"--i.e. public consumption with the public forced to watch--in churches, hospitals, schools, Target stores. etc.? That's news to me.
Actually, I'm saying it should be up to the church, hospital, and Target store, not the State. When it comes to schools, it depends on who owns the schools. I actually don't have an opinion either way.
It's a rather bizarre analogy, though, in that any lethality connected to marijuana (drive by SHOOTINGS, etc.) has to do with the substance being illegal, and thus inflated in value and open to exploitation by the underworld. As opposed to guns, which in and of themselves directly cause tens of thousands of deaths a year (including drug and gang related deaths). Along those lines, if you want a strained (or not so strained) analogy, every American who relies on cheap petroleum for income or entertainment is saying, "Your dead environment doesn't trump my riding mower/jet-ski/4 x 4." It seems none of us are guiltless.
Most of which happen where legal gun ownership is low to non existent, like Oakland and Chicago. I can picture some, like the fans of the PATRIOT Act that "your BoR doesn't trump my right to feel safe." Look at Japan, where there is no right to council while questioning, often brutal, no right to a fair trial, force confessions, including torture, are admissible in court. No exclusionary rule, so there is no consequence of not getting a warrant.
As for comparing countries, didn't you start out by blaming the high incidence of gun deaths in the US, as opposed to Canada, on our "social problems?" So how it is this caveat doesn't work for countries with incredibly high rates of grinding poverty, dysfunctional law enforcement, corrupt criminal justice systems, etc.? It seems like you're saying, if a country is developed, has stricter gun controls, and a lower gun death and injury rate, it's not the gun controls at work, but the "lack" of "social problems." But if a country that has less guns, but enormous social problems, has a high incidence of violence, the fault isn't those self-same "social problems"--it's the lack of guns. Funny how that works
say what? 2/3 of our gun deaths are suicides, so that's kind of obvious. I said our higher murder rates, regardless of means, was because of various social problems. Actually it does, if you look at places like Mexico, Jamaica, Brazil, Russia, Bermuda, anywhere in Central America, they all have gun laws closer to Chicago and DC than Canada or Wyoming, yet they have higher murder rates than we do. The fact that less than 20 percent of Mexico's murders are gun related is of no consequence.
And is the violent crime rate dropping in other developed countries as well, countries that don't fetishize firearms? I honestly don't know, but it would be worth checking. What's the violent crime rate doing in Japan--rising, or falling? How about France, Holland, Australia?
"Developed" is actually a meaningless term. It is falling here, and has been for 20 years. It has been steady there. In terms of wealth inequality and the GINI index, we are closer to Mexico's "development" than any of those places. Australia gun laws always varied by each state and AFAIK, never had laws similar to most of the US. Europe actually had same or lower murder rates before they passed any gun control at all. Japan never had liberal gun laws.
The point seems to be that the US has a far higher rate of gun deaths than any other developed nation in the world. The causes are no doubt varied and complex, but the fact that our society is awash in guns, so much so that most anyone can get one or more, legally or not, must also be a factor here.
Because most of them are suicides. Just like Switzerland has "more gun deaths" than anywhere else in Europe, but they have a high suicide rate. If you remove the guns, they will simply become rope deaths. That isn't progress.
But I know you don't believe that. Ah well, someday the tide will turn. Just as young people seem less bigoted about gay rights and marriage equality, from what I've seen they're also less besotted with firearms. Time will tell.
I don't know what gays and guns have to do with each other, but most kids I know lean libertarian or classical liberal. They support gay rights, but also like their guns too.
My point was that the average bong owner is responsible for more gun violence than 99.9999 percent of all gun owners. Same with beer drinkers in the 1920s.
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One map that puts America's gun violence epidemic in perspective [View all]
SecularMotion
Jun 2014
OP
Honduras has a murder rate 22 times that of America? I would seriously want to take my children
Fred Sanders
Jun 2014
#3
In America we have cut our murder and manslaughter rate in half over the past 20 years
hack89
Jun 2014
#19
We are not supposed to notice that poverty and corruption correlate...
friendly_iconoclast
Jun 2014
#22
We have a horrible murder rate compared to countries like us. No one can deny it. n-t
Logical
Jun 2014
#23
Yet the point of the OP is that high gun ownership rates cause high murder rates
hack89
Jun 2014
#24
I am fine with guns. But I have no doubt that if there were no guns the USA murder rate would......
Logical
Jun 2014
#25
Guns are designed to kill things. Stop the silly comparisons. I will take my chance.....
Logical
Jun 2014
#28
Guns make it easy to kill people. LOL, why do cops/military carry guns? Get it yet? n-t
Logical
Jun 2014
#30
You really think if there were NO guns that they would all be replaced with other weapons? n-t
Logical
Jun 2014
#32
If you have no stake in the game, why should it matter what you think about the game?
Jenoch
Jul 2014
#69
LOL, so under your logic we should give guns to robbers to reduce injury's? Classic! n-t
Logical
Jun 2014
#38
No, based on what you said would that not prevent injury's??? You said it Einstein, not me.......
Logical
Jun 2014
#40
You still have not explained why we don't arm robbers with guns to prevent injury's! Please....
Logical
Jun 2014
#44
So you have no proof of this claim except something you read who knows where? LOL.....
Logical
Jun 2014
#46
LOL, you said it was a book! So you didn't even look before? Just BSing me? n-t
Logical
Jun 2014
#48