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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)34. You've offered up at least two logical fallacies, not evidence
Apparently hoping that we wouldn't notice, so I'll remind the class of your original claim:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=151385
The declining rate of gun owners from the early 90's, from ~40% down to ~30%, is what caused the murder rate & violent crime rate to fall since the early 90's...
Here's another Latin phrase for your edification: Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
("after this, therefore because of this"
The two polls you cited may or may not be accurate (which brings up your other
fallacy: confirmation bias)- but there's no evidence that one rate drove the other-
if it did, murder via gun would have declined as a total percentage of murders.
On the contrary, the percentage remained the same:
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4863
Homicide in the U.S. Known to Law Enforcement, 2011
Alexia Cooper, Ph.D., Erica L. Smith
December 30, 2013 NCJ 243035
Presents data on homicide trends from 1992 to 2011. The report describes homicide patterns and trends by age, sex, and race of the victim. It explores weapon use, with a focus on trends in firearm use and homicide trends by city size. It also includes special discussions of missing offender data and firearm use in nonfatal violent victimizations. The data are from the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, with summary data from Crime in the United States, for homicide data prior to 1980. Data on nonfatal victimizations are from BJS's National Crime Victimization Survey, 1993 to 1995 and 2008 to 2011
... the percentage of homicide victims killed by a firearm (67%) remained stable.
Alexia Cooper, Ph.D., Erica L. Smith
December 30, 2013 NCJ 243035
Presents data on homicide trends from 1992 to 2011. The report describes homicide patterns and trends by age, sex, and race of the victim. It explores weapon use, with a focus on trends in firearm use and homicide trends by city size. It also includes special discussions of missing offender data and firearm use in nonfatal violent victimizations. The data are from the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, with summary data from Crime in the United States, for homicide data prior to 1980. Data on nonfatal victimizations are from BJS's National Crime Victimization Survey, 1993 to 1995 and 2008 to 2011
... the percentage of homicide victims killed by a firearm (67%) remained stable.
You are perfectly free to believe that the presence of guns compels otherwise
peaceful individuals into murderous rages, but you'll have to offer up some
actual evidence if you want us to believe it as well..
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The cumulative count will always increase unless people start rising from the dead.
hack89
Aug 2014
#6
An unsupported claim *and* a strawman in just one sentence. Well done!
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#24
Let me know when it drops below the rate of death from e-bola in the US.
notrightatall
Oct 2014
#202
And this is why I feel good about resisting the people that want me to ban you, SM
krispos42
Aug 2014
#8
You're "helping the cause" in the same way Ian Paisley used to "help" Unionism...
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#17
So you think I'm being harassed for being the host of a group that bans gun nuts?
SecularMotion
Aug 2014
#26
Well the only place where opposing views to the ones presented in your echo chamber
shedevil69taz
Aug 2014
#31
A flat declaration of fact is now an "opinion", and a strawman is repeated
friendly_iconoclast
Aug 2014
#39
Rates declining is not the same as the proportion of guns used to commit homicide.
acalix
Aug 2014
#50
Great Post! The 2a is racist, unnecessary, and evil. It should be repealed.
ncjustice80
Sep 2014
#58
Bogus! That mofo just keeps popping up. Such clearly debunked bullshit, and it still comes up.
NYC_SKP
Oct 2014
#81
The Dred Scott decision was passed, in part, to prevent slaves from owning guns.
Nuclear Unicorn
Sep 2014
#67
Hit and run cowards with hands on their keyboards are giving aid and comfort to the GOP. NT
pablo_marmol
Sep 2014
#70
I think you're right but I wouldn't blame movies and books and TV shows on the NRA.
NYC_SKP
Sep 2014
#72
Even if we accept your erroneous interpretation that would still make the 2A addressed to the people
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#124
It's kind looking, from the passge you have cited, that individual liberty is the issue at hand.
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#129
The passage -- which was selected by you and is not the totality of the debate -- deals with
Nuclear Unicorn
Oct 2014
#140
Your entire line of argument is moot, thanks to the unorganized militia...
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#191
The ageist and sexist language wouldn't stand up to legal challenge
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#208
Your claim conflicts directly with the wording of the Second Amendment itself
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#216
The 'collective' reading of the Second Amendment is what's moot...
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2014
#238