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Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
92. It's simple.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 01:26 AM
Oct 2014
Most state Declaration of Rights contained provisions similar to this: "That a well regulated militia is the natural/proper defense of a free state/country/government; that standing armies are dangerous..."

Who did such rights belong to?

Those rights, as with all rights, belong to anyone and everyone, with the exception of those to whom they are expressly forbidden by common agreement of the sort sometimes known as "the social contract." I thought that much was clear from my post. I didn't think it was too hard to understand.

The provisions serve to explain why infringement of the natural and pre-existing right is undesirable or outright dangerous. They do not delineate a narrow set of conditions under which the right is to be "granted."
The Skanner. Sounds like a B-sci-fi movie. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #1
The people with blood on their hands Lurks Often Aug 2014 #2
"The body count continues to rise" ...except it doesn't, it continues to fall DonP Aug 2014 #3
It hasn't gone down russ1943 Aug 2014 #5
The cumulative count will always increase unless people start rising from the dead. hack89 Aug 2014 #6
So you have a link to prove that it's going up? IronGate Aug 2014 #7
You are funny, wrong, but really funny, not to mention desperate DonP Aug 2014 #9
I’m neither wrong nor funny. russ1943 Aug 2014 #13
Oh yeah, we’re supposed to know what you mean, not what you wrote. russ1943 Aug 2014 #14
You said the body count continues to rise, IronGate Aug 2014 #15
a steaming pile jimmy the one Aug 2014 #22
An unsupported claim *and* a strawman in just one sentence. Well done! friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #24
ex recto ergo unfriendly icon jimmy the one Aug 2014 #32
You've offered up at least two logical fallacies, not evidence friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #34
You're looking at the wrong statistic. acalix Aug 2014 #35
you're talking about rate of increase - the body count is rising samsingh Oct 2014 #76
11,453 gun murders in 1996; 9528 in 2008; 8855 in 2012 hack89 Oct 2014 #80
add the numbers up - those are all guns deaths samsingh Oct 2014 #102
But they are steadily decreasing hack89 Oct 2014 #103
People are being revived by gunnery? notrightatall Oct 2014 #176
The annual body count is falling hack89 Oct 2014 #197
Let me know when it drops below the rate of death from e-bola in the US. notrightatall Oct 2014 #202
Not a problem nt hack89 Oct 2014 #203
Another fact-less, emotional rant from the radical gun control fringe hack89 Aug 2014 #4
Also known as the coalition of the sane. notrightatall Oct 2014 #204
Right. Nt hack89 Oct 2014 #205
I got your "coalition of the sane" right here pal... beevul Oct 2014 #212
Sorry , Mr. Gun Man... notrightatall Oct 2014 #215
"That was nothing more than lousy cops doing a lousy job." friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #237
That is the most idiotic post I have read in weeks. notrightatall Oct 2014 #242
Looks like you need to get out more... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #243
No need to be contrite. notrightatall Oct 2014 #248
The gibes of the politically ineffectual carry no sting friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #253
And this is why I feel good about resisting the people that want me to ban you, SM krispos42 Aug 2014 #8
The fact that gunners want you ban to me SecularMotion Aug 2014 #10
Funny thing, IronGate Aug 2014 #11
I am so glad this group allows you to post your funnies Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #16
You're "helping the cause" in the same way Ian Paisley used to "help" Unionism... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #17
No, it just shows they don't like people that don't discuss what they post. krispos42 Aug 2014 #19
Bullshit! SecularMotion Aug 2014 #20
You have a point krispos42 Aug 2014 #21
And here's your award, a "Narcissist of the Week" T-shirt DonP Aug 2014 #23
performing the ostrich trick jimmy the one Aug 2014 #33
Maybe we would respect you if you you didn't maintain a echo chamber shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #25
So you think I'm being harassed for being the host of a group that bans gun nuts? SecularMotion Aug 2014 #26
I think your behavior is that of a child... shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #27
Do you feel that way about all safe havens on DU? SecularMotion Aug 2014 #28
I dunno... shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #29
That's where you're mistaken SecularMotion Aug 2014 #30
Well the only place where opposing views to the ones presented in your echo chamber shedevil69taz Aug 2014 #31
Nah, I don't think we would. n/t HALO141 Nov 2014 #324
this is not all over DU Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #36
You know Duckhunter935 Aug 2014 #43
Wrong. ... spin Oct 2014 #88
Gun Control In UK Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #96
Utter lies. acalix Oct 2014 #97
Below 0% owned guns before ban. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #106
math lesson gejohnston Oct 2014 #107
Reading lesson. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #109
yes, he and the BBC said it rose gejohnston Oct 2014 #111
Below 0%? Try 6% of households. acalix Nov 2014 #302
since only licensed gun owners turned in their guns gejohnston Oct 2014 #99
Obviously, the BBC are just NRA shills DonP Oct 2014 #101
My point was that some gun control advocates would like to impose laws ... spin Oct 2014 #118
NRA has unwarranted power Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #121
except they don't gejohnston Oct 2014 #127
Unregistered private sales Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #131
if legislation prevented it gejohnston Oct 2014 #132
I realize that gun control advocates love to call the NRA the Big Bully ... spin Oct 2014 #133
Speaking of "blood on hands," dove season opens in Texas Labor Day. Eleanors38 Aug 2014 #12
Thanks, but I'll keep my rights. ileus Aug 2014 #18
by your own reasoning you lose jimmy the one Aug 2014 #37
A flat declaration of fact is now an "opinion", and a strawman is repeated friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #40
evidence dates back centuries jimmy the one Aug 2014 #38
A quote from an ancient poem that features divine intervention... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #41
Rates declining is not the same as percentage of guns used to commit murder. acalix Aug 2014 #42
harping on a quibble jimmy the one Aug 2014 #44
You've been done a disservice, jimmy friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #46
Rates declining is not the same as the proportion of guns used to commit homicide. acalix Aug 2014 #50
win battle lose war jimmy the one Aug 2014 #45
really neat picture graphic jimmy the one Aug 2014 #47
More neat graphics that "prove" correlation = causation: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2014 #48
you provide excellent examples jimmy the one Aug 2014 #49
Firearms are used in 67% of all murders. This has remained the same since 1992. acalix Aug 2014 #51
cherry pickium errorium jimmy the one Aug 2014 #52
Repeated ad infintum acalix Aug 2014 #53
more data jimmy the one Sep 2014 #54
And it rose again acalix Sep 2014 #55
both rose again jimmy the one Sep 2014 #56
Either gun ownership rose or it didn't acalix Sep 2014 #57
Great Post! The 2a is racist, unnecessary, and evil. It should be repealed. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #58
In what way is it racist? oneshooter Sep 2014 #59
Loooonnnnggg history behind that. ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #60
So the civil made the 2nd obsolete? DonP Sep 2014 #62
Loudly? So soon. n/t oneshooter Sep 2014 #63
Sounds familiar? IronGate Sep 2014 #64
You read that on Truth-out by gejohnston Sep 2014 #65
Nunn? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #73
no there isn't. gejohnston Oct 2014 #82
Bogus! That mofo just keeps popping up. Such clearly debunked bullshit, and it still comes up. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #81
Welcome back!!!!! sarisataka Sep 2014 #66
It isn't. blueridge3210 Sep 2014 #61
The Dred Scott decision was passed, in part, to prevent slaves from owning guns. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #67
Thank you! nt ncjustice80 Sep 2014 #68
Meet civil rights hero, Otis McDonald -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2014 #69
Bogus rebutted gejohnston Oct 2014 #241
Hit and run cowards with hands on their keyboards are giving aid and comfort to the GOP. NT pablo_marmol Sep 2014 #70
At the heart of it is the NRA-fueled paranoia. chrisa Sep 2014 #71
I think you're right but I wouldn't blame movies and books and TV shows on the NRA. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #72
The Militia Amendment. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #74
"He" who? Madison? Jefferson? NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #75
"He" who wrote the proposed amendments. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #78
I acknowledge that the collective right depends upon individual rights. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #79
Why does it? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #83
The state can't "grant" rights that are natural rights. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #84
That doesn't answer my question. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #85
Fundamental error. Straw Man Oct 2014 #86
Answer this question Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #87
It sounds as if you think the constitution is there to serve the government. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #89
I haven't said that. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #95
Please give your definition of the term "right" discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #90
Please stop side-stepping the points made in #74 Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #94
you realize you picked the one of the worst SCOTUS decision ever gejohnston Oct 2014 #98
Doesn't say what it says????? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #108
the decision has been over turned gejohnston Oct 2014 #110
Including the existence of "collective rights?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #117
because gejohnston Oct 2014 #119
Do collective rights exist? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #125
cherry pick much? gejohnston Oct 2014 #126
That depends Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #134
false reading gejohnston Oct 2014 #135
Ease up on the constant strawmen Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #138
are for real? gejohnston Oct 2014 #141
Cherry-picked? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #144
So? gejohnston Oct 2014 #162
STILL no straight answers Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #164
that is a straight answer gejohnston Oct 2014 #167
From 2A to 9A Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #169
my question remains gejohnston Oct 2014 #170
Continuous side-stepping Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #173
not even close gejohnston Oct 2014 #174
MORE side-stepping. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #178
you addressed nothing gejohnston Oct 2014 #179
Please answer the question discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #100
The question is irrelevant. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #112
Without the definition of "right"... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #175
It's simple. Straw Man Oct 2014 #92
Simple, but wrong. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #93
Fish aren't aware of the water they swim in. Straw Man Oct 2014 #105
"Enlightened political theory" Lol Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #113
Not "enlightened" -- "Englightenment" Straw Man Oct 2014 #115
Relevance Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #120
You're missing the point by miles. Straw Man Oct 2014 #142
"Of course not" = No. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #143
You seem to be very confused ... Straw Man Oct 2014 #155
Misdirection, smoke and mirrors Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #163
I've been very clear. Straw Man Oct 2014 #165
The deceiver. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #168
What kind of game are you playing? Straw Man Oct 2014 #171
Yet MORE misdirection from Straw Man Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #172
Smoke and mirrors. Straw Man Oct 2014 #180
The unanswered question Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #190
Oh, so you want to play guessing games ... Straw Man Oct 2014 #193
Your answer. What now? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #196
So let me get this straight. Straw Man Oct 2014 #209
I've been clear Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #213
No, you haven't. Straw Man Oct 2014 #217
"They?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #220
Yes, "they." Straw Man Oct 2014 #222
Let's play word games. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #226
No, let's be clear. Straw Man Oct 2014 #230
Individual right to a well regulated militia? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #235
Nope. Straw Man Oct 2014 #244
Bobbing and weaving Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #246
Oh, come on. Straw Man Oct 2014 #250
Thomas Jefferson- sarisataka Oct 2014 #114
No bearing on purpose of Second Amendment Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #122
As a militia amendent sarisataka Oct 2014 #123
Squeezing out of the text Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #166
The slightest hint? Straw Man Oct 2014 #194
Even if we accept your erroneous interpretation that would still make the 2A addressed to the people Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #124
Proposal reaches the Congress. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #128
It's kind looking, from the passge you have cited, that individual liberty is the issue at hand. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #129
But not the "liberty" to own a gun? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #136
The passage -- which was selected by you and is not the totality of the debate -- deals with Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #140
Selected passage? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #145
Mason quote in context Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #160
At all times armed Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #161
Seems a debate about how individual rights sarisataka Oct 2014 #130
It just isn't there. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #137
At the basis of a Liberal Democracy: sarisataka Oct 2014 #139
Assumption Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #146
Yes sarisataka Oct 2014 #147
C-A-R-R-Y-I-N-G Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #148
Why do you keep changing your point? sarisataka Oct 2014 #149
jefferson was not advising a gun for protection jimmy the one Oct 2014 #150
Don't see where I made any claim sarisataka Oct 2014 #151
quotes prove little jimmy the one Oct 2014 #152
bogus quote alert, bogus quote alert jimmy the one Oct 2014 #153
I do not have time sarisataka Oct 2014 #154
Phrase isn't his Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #156
You are correct sarisataka Oct 2014 #181
A well regulated militia, not unorganized gun owners. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #185
Colonial militias did indeed elect their own officers back then friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #186
Art 1, Sec 8. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #188
Your entire line of argument is moot, thanks to the unorganized militia... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #191
Doesn't consist of everyone Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #206
The ageist and sexist language wouldn't stand up to legal challenge friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #208
65 year olds? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #214
Your claim conflicts directly with the wording of the Second Amendment itself friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #216
Side-stepping in circles Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #224
knife sharpener needed jimmy the one Oct 2014 #232
The 'collective' reading of the Second Amendment is what's moot... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #238
having the power and doing it gejohnston Oct 2014 #192
Required Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #198
the required those eligible gejohnston Oct 2014 #200
None of my business but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #199
sometimes I think I can gejohnston Oct 2014 #201
yeah discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #207
Collective rights Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #236
With all due respect... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #240
Rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #258
The thrust Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #187
Nice sarisataka Oct 2014 #189
I showed the wider quote Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #195
Brainwashed? Straw Man Oct 2014 #210
"supports the individual-right interpretation?" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #218
Now you're making me laugh. Straw Man Oct 2014 #223
Drawing false conclusions Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #228
Wrong again. Straw Man Oct 2014 #229
Propagandist accusing others of bad faith. Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #233
I'm a propagandist? Straw Man Oct 2014 #245
Not answering isn't ignoring? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #247
You're asking me why Adams did or didn't say something? Straw Man Oct 2014 #249
Your OWN assertion Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #157
Bearing arms IS military service Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #158
The military expression and phrase Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #159
Final answer sarisataka Oct 2014 #177
Bearing arms IS military service Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #182
The other state provisions Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #183
vintage 2ndA mythology jimmy the one Oct 2014 #227
The state proposals Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #184
1776/77 arms provisions jimmy the one Oct 2014 #221
exercise with your 7 lb gun jimmy the one Oct 2014 #225
Posting with a 1/2 oz. quill pen? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #239
new constitution every 19 yrs, jefferson jimmy the one Oct 2014 #231
So typical. Get everyone asking the wrong question, and of course... beevul Oct 2014 #211
Your answer? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #219
My assertion is empirical fact. beevul Oct 2014 #251
The purpose Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #254
Youy're playing the "distinction without a difference" game. beevul Oct 2014 #256
Voting and abortion? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #259
Sorry, but no. beevul Oct 2014 #261
No and yes? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #263
Can't you read? beevul Oct 2014 #265
Can't you give straight answers? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #266
Every answer I've given you has been a strait answer... beevul Oct 2014 #267
Fluke true comment? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #276
Where? beevul Nov 2014 #278
Straw and red-herrings answer Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #281
Sorry bud, but you're wrong again. beevul Nov 2014 #283
Torpedo? Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #286
Yeah, torpedo. beevul Nov 2014 #292
More ignorance from beevul Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #298
Like the Bismarck. Straw Man Nov 2014 #295
More untrue factoids from Strawman Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #296
Wrong again. Straw Man Nov 2014 #300
Ask about the Ninth Amendment sarisataka Nov 2014 #303
YOU ask. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #306
Very well, Two questions sarisataka Nov 2014 #321
Strawman playing ignorant Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #307
This message was self-deleted by its author Straw Man Nov 2014 #308
Around and around and around we go. Straw Man Nov 2014 #309
Oh, that's different Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #310
More question dodging from Strawman Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #311
The essence of your error Straw Man Nov 2014 #314
Collective and individual right comparison. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #312
You're funny. Straw Man Nov 2014 #315
He confuses collective protection of a right... beevul Nov 2014 #316
I found it interesting blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #318
I am quite sure... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2014 #317
Like miss-thrown Frisbees: 1 is no problem; a thousand, yuck. nt Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #322
"Contend" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #319
It would seem that ... Straw Man Nov 2014 #320
Messing with the text Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #234
Your implication is that it matters. It does not. beevul Oct 2014 #252
THE purpose Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #255
Nope. beevul Oct 2014 #257
"Abuse of it's powers" Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #260
Since you want to play the "quote a justice" game... beevul Oct 2014 #262
Joseph Story quote in context Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #264
You're so cute when you equivocate. beevul Oct 2014 #268
He's not answering me either discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #269
GN's distorting justice story jimmy the one Oct 2014 #270
Poor poor Jimmy... beevul Oct 2014 #271
the truth so clear jimmy the one Oct 2014 #272
And wholly irrelevant to the matter at hand. beevul Oct 2014 #273
more guns, more lies jimmy the one Oct 2014 #274
You really need an authority to answer that for you? beevul Nov 2014 #279
One man militias? Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #277
I'm sorry, you clearly don't understand any of this. beevul Nov 2014 #280
"The People" is NOT "people." Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #282
"You're SO wrong." Meet amendment 4. beevul Nov 2014 #284
Just curious: blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #285
Free government Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #287
So, in your interpretation, blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #288
Right to "assemble" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #290
Perfect example of how you play fast and loose with the facts. beevul Nov 2014 #294
Dismissing/ignoring points made. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #297
Now you're just being silly. Straw Man Nov 2014 #301
Party guest. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #289
Yes, you muddying the water. beevul Nov 2014 #299
Didn't belong to that body. Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #305
Other individuals did though. beevul Nov 2014 #313
Right there: "...describing the person..." Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #323
More muddy water from beevul Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #291
There is no amendment dealing with state security glenn. beevul Nov 2014 #293
"Qualifiers qualifiers qualifiers qualifiers" Glenn Vardy Nov 2014 #304
Citizen soldiers Glenn Vardy Oct 2014 #275
you are absolutely right samsingh Oct 2014 #77
Not even HALO141 Oct 2014 #91
agreed samsingh Oct 2014 #104
absolutely incorrect ileus Oct 2014 #116
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