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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
42. I don't smoke
Thu Oct 30, 2014, 02:56 PM
Oct 2014

ezra: My point is that the commentators panning lever-actions as worthless antiques far less capable than semiautos are wrong; they were developed as combat weapons, after all, and are capable of delivering a comparable rate of aimed fire to a .30 caliber semiauto... If you could magically outlaw all semiautomatics, detachable-magazine lever-actions or pump-actions can deliver a comparable rate of effective fire,

Effective fire would suffer, since the recoil from a lever action would necessitate reaim more than a semi with same caliber bullet. When comparing a lever with the AR15, I think an order of magnitude slower could indeed be correct. An ar15 has such little recoil a strong guy could likely shoot it like a pistol braced on his shoulder. With such little recoil AR15 shooter can get off more effective shots to target than a lever (per time). I'd guess the Canadian lever action approx. 150gr bullet, while .223 about 55 -60, so more effective shots per minute due less recoil due ligher bullet. You're so concerned with precision how you neglect that consideration? Small guy lanza didn't need worry about recoil at newtown.
.. and the musket was designed as a combat weapon, & the henry circa civil war was a combat weapon, they've become relatively outdated as combat weapons.

ezra: .. could magically outlaw all semiautomatics (which hasn't even happened in England; Google "BR-99&quot ,

OK I did, evidently a shotgun legal in England, what else is new? sg's are indeed legal in England with proper documentation, there might be a hunting restriction. A proper comparison is by per capita, relative frequency & severity of weapon/ammo. With approx. 3 million firearms in UK, there just isn't the threat that exists in America with 100 times that (note 3 million is approx. the same amount or firearms in all of Switzerland with ~8 million peeps, UK ~60mill.)
..I'm surprised tho, 20 rd mags: Brand New Bora Barak BR99 Box Fed Shotguns.. These tactical shotguns .. £499.00 they include 2 five rd magazines (20 round mags available for £39.50 each).. www.gunstar.co.uk/bora-barak-br99-12-bore-gauge-shotgun-for-sale-in-west-susse/Shotguns/687652#OCCMVy3hAKPhsmHC.99

.. waita minute on the UK 20 rd mags, they're 'may issue' policy: wiki, UK: Shotguns Single-barrelled, double-barrelled shotguns, or those with a lever-action or, pump-action, or semi-automatic and fixed magazine capacity of no more than three (2 in the magazine and one in the chamber) cartridges are permitted on a Shotgun Certificate. Shotguns with a detachable magazine or larger fixed magazine are permitted on a Section 1 Firearms Certificate. Certain types of shotgun ammunition, such as rifled slugs and larger shot sizes can only be bought following the grant of an FAC (firearms certificate). >>> To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be satisfied that a person has "good reason" to own each firearm, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, firearms certificates are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting, collecting, or work-related reasons for ownership. Since 1968, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a firearm.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#Shotguns

ezra: if you think rifle ownership has dropped, you are smoking something. Look at the BATFE rifle sales stats from 1994 to present, and the shotgun/rifle ratio in particular.. the hard sales figures don't lie.

The hard sales figures don't reflect personal or household gun ownership rates; What has transpired regarding guns as a whole is that more existing gun owners are buying more guns, as reflected by a recent stat I saw where guns per American has risen from ~5 up to 6.5 or so - like the 20/80 rule where fans are 20% of the people & buy 80% of the fetish. Gun ownership rates have indeed gone down. Dunno why rifles would be immune to the 'hoarding', maybe 100 million?:

I was out back mending fences the other day and gave this a lot of thought. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #1
"If Michael Zehaf Bibeau had wanted to kill more people, he could have found a different gun" Electric Monk Oct 2014 #6
The suicide by police part was inevitable, he must have known that. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #8
there is no reason he couldn't have gotten one gejohnston Oct 2014 #2
You can sneak anything into Canada. This OP is just another limp attempt to make a case. NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #3
Didn't a noted U.S. Senator refer to the .30-30 as a "cop killer" bullet? Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #4
Yes, and "armor piercing", since it will penetrate body armor benEzra Oct 2014 #7
Not as slow firing as they imply, but slower loading. benEzra Oct 2014 #5
Ok, now compare and contrast with this Electric Monk Oct 2014 #11
So what? The AR platform is too widespread to ban now... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #12
so why didn't he use any of these gejohnston Oct 2014 #13
Or one of these: benEzra Oct 2014 #15
I shoot competitively with a Rock River AR-15, benEzra Oct 2014 #14
I agree, your points are moot jimmy the one Oct 2014 #16
You tell 'em, jimmy! Broadsides full of cultural warfare have helped to make gun control... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #19
Thoughts... benEzra Oct 2014 #23
Well said, but you are citing facts to a culture warrior. Feelings are more important to them friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #25
True, but typing is therapeutic...helps alleviate chronic facepalming. benEzra Oct 2014 #27
you win a kewpie doll jimmy the one Oct 2014 #28
How thoughtful of you to proclaim what others' true needs are friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #31
Keep your kewpie doll, and I'll keep my AR, thanks. benEzra Oct 2014 #32
Wow. blueridge3210 Oct 2014 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author DonP Oct 2014 #35
Good to have you back Ben DonP Oct 2014 #36
It's good to be back! Had some life events that took priority for a while, but all is good. (n/t) benEzra Oct 2014 #37
good to see you discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2014 #38
peruse jeremiah johnson's wound ballistics jimmy the one Oct 2014 #41
I did. First, the birdshot/buckshot/hollowpoint question. benEzra Oct 2014 #45
iwba jimmy the one Oct 2014 #46
More thoughts... benEzra Nov 2014 #49
tyrannical gubmint as defined by nra jimmy the one Oct 2014 #47
That's a pretty obvious scam, unless it's a BATFE sting. benEzra Nov 2014 #50
74% on the plus side, the unfake side jimmy the one Nov 2014 #56
So how inaccurate do civilian rifles need to be to be allowed? benEzra Nov 2014 #57
"The "conversion to full auto" canard is a red herring to cover for your real agenda". Indeed friendly_iconoclast Nov 2014 #58
Not much different from "Louisiana bars Ebola researchers from conference" friendly_iconoclast Nov 2014 #59
I don't smoke jimmy the one Oct 2014 #42
one of your sidekicks did a preemptive debunking gejohnston Oct 2014 #44
Speaking of accuracy, in the video you posted (#5) they are often only just hitting the pond. nt Electric Monk Oct 2014 #22
Quite so. But they can reacquire the sights during cycling, benEzra Oct 2014 #24
Curtis Rutt is an idiot. Straw Man Oct 2014 #9
I graduated from a lever action to a semi auto in 1984. ileus Oct 2014 #10
parliamentary lock box jimmy the one Oct 2014 #17
actually, it doesn't gejohnston Oct 2014 #18
learn what 'actually' means jimmy the one Oct 2014 #20
Canadian laws have nothing to do with it gejohnston Oct 2014 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Oct 2014 #26
fact check your own links jimmy the one Oct 2014 #29
actually, I did check my facts gejohnston Oct 2014 #30
j wants hair of the dog jimmy the one Oct 2014 #40
That bullshit is not even gejohnston Oct 2014 #43
With all this "foaming" and "range orgasms," I've been missing out... Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #33
I feel left out - didn't see any orgasms at the range Saturday DonP Oct 2014 #39
I went to the range today, and didn't see any orgasms either. benEzra Nov 2014 #53
Must be a lack of "imagination" on our part DonP Nov 2014 #54
mo on big o jimmy the one Nov 2014 #66
Coiuld you be any less relevant to either the discussion or the issue if you tried? DonP Nov 2014 #67
most sailors are gunless jimmy the one Nov 2014 #60
The Remington 700 and Winchester Model 70 deer rifles... benEzra Nov 2014 #61
Curious on what the excuse to ban this will be Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #62
Hmm... Straw Man Nov 2014 #63
The only way to ban it would be to ban all detachable-magazine semiautos... benEzra Nov 2014 #64
what endorsements? jimmy the one Nov 2014 #65
Yup, just like ALL small-caliber autoloading rifles and ALL full-sized pistols. benEzra Nov 2014 #69
3% milk jimmy the one Nov 2014 #73
Specifically, 19 *names* were affected that could no longer be used in marketing. benEzra Nov 2014 #75
m16 & ak47 comparison jimmy the one Nov 2014 #68
Ummm, expansion/fragmentation is what keeps rounds from overpenetrating and killing your neighbors. benEzra Nov 2014 #70
on fragments jimmy the one Nov 2014 #71
our mutual friend jimmy the one Nov 2014 #72
Why are you so hung up on military FMJ? We are talking about CIVILIAN JACKETED HOLLOWPOINTS. benEzra Nov 2014 #74
It's a 1 way trip for most everyone who goes on a shooting spree. Kaleva Oct 2014 #48
Some news reports said he loosed off 50 rounds. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #51
Which, FOX? CBC reported he shot 3 at the War Memorial, and up to 4 inside the building. 7 total. nt Electric Monk Nov 2014 #52
Thanks for the info. I can't remember. It was probably an early report CJCRANE Nov 2014 #55
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