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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #72)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:43 PM

74. Why are you so hung up on military FMJ? We are talking about CIVILIAN JACKETED HOLLOWPOINTS.

" our friend Martin Fackler inter alios, contend the .223 55gr prior to 100 yds, will fragment in a Human target into one large fragment & the several particles you & wiki noted, but this does not take into account any losses of KE from passing thru a drywall, which, imo, would affect the fragmenting."

Why are you so hung up on military FMJ? In the HD context, we are primarily talking about *civilian jacketed hollowpoints or softpoints*, designed to fragment more consistently and more readily than military FMJ in order to limit penetration. Mine is loaded with Federal 55gr JHP. Even more prone to early fragmentation are the 40-grain small-game loads, but they penetrate even less than birdshot and are therefore no longer used by law enforcement or most non-LE civilians either. Ditto for AK's and for every other civilian rifle.

"Those are ak74's, right? You do confuse when you just write .22 rather than .223. I figure the 3 there for a reason. I looked at a few of the firing links, but don't come away with anything I can discuss with confidence. "

The bore diameter is the same for all American centerfire .22's, at .224. Russian .22's measure about .221, but that's too small to have any effect ballistically. There are only a few standard bore diameters used across the spectrum: .17, .22, .25, .27, .30, .32, .36, .40, .45, .50, .68, .73 cover almost all of them. I think .22LR usually uses .224 barrels also but I may be wrong, though .22LR shoots fine out of an AR with a chamber adapter.

The different numbers (.220, .221, .222, .223) are just shorthand used by manufacturers and standardized by SAAMI to differentiate the different cartridge shapes/lengths. For example, .22 Hornet, .221, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .22-250, .220 Swift, and 5.56x45mm NATO all have the exact same caliber (diameter) barrel and fire the same bullets. The "3" in .223 Remington was put there to distinguish it from its parent cartridge, .222 Remington, when they slightly modified the shoulder geometry to give it a touch more powder capacity than the .222. But the bore diameter is .224. .223 is roughly in the middle of the pack with regard to case capacity and velocity; .220 Swift can push light loads beyond 4000 ft/sec, whereas some of the others are in the mid-2000's.

It's kind of like 9mm/.38 Special/.357 Magnum, which shoot the same diameter bullets, roughly .36 caliber. Shotgun calibers are named differently for historical reasons, but a 12-gauge is .729 caliber and a 20-gauge is about .68 caliber, as I recall.

As to the .22 AK's, yes, some are non-automatic civilian AK-74 lookalikes or derivatives in 5.45x39mm (.221), like the one in the video, and some are in .223 Remington/5.56x45mm.

Almost all Ruger Mini-14's are .223 Remington, FWIW, though a few were made in 6.8mm SPC (around .270 IIRC). The Mini Thirty is 7.62x39mm.

"But an increased temporary cavity is not necessarily a bad thing for the target, in that it can collapse sometimes with little contributing damage, or miss vitals, and fackler's wound chart shows the ak74 tends no fragmentation. Perhaps this ak74 a way to fly for HD. "

First, only Russian military 5.45x39mm 7N6 FMJ acts like that, and 5.45x39mm 7N6 FMJ is banned from further import because the BATFE considers it "armor piercing" (remember, what doesn't fragment tends to shoot through things). However, 7N6 achieves wounding similar to military .223 FMJ by being designed to tumble upon impact more readily than .223, thereby tending to travel through the target sideways and causing a much-larger-than-.22 wound.

Because it doesn't fragment, though, 7N6 would be more likely to shoot through walls, a bad thing from a HD standpoint. Using a civilian jacketed hollowpoint in that caliber would make a lot more sense in the HD role, to limit drywall penetration. I believe Hornady makes a civilian VMAX load in that caliber.

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