HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » What are gun owners afrai... » Reply #26
In the discussion thread: What are gun owners afraid of? [View all]

Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Original post)

Sat Nov 29, 2014, 03:27 PM

26. Ah, the assumption that anyone who chooses differently than you

must be acting out of primitive emotion, because if "they" were choosing intelligently, then OBVIOUSLY "they" would agree with you on your pet issue. So "they" must own guns out of deep-seated fear or something.

Years ago (back on Common Ground Common Sense, originally the John Kerry forums) I encountered this same claim and posted the following in response. I don't own guns out of fear, and I don't think many people do; the defensive utility is certainly part of the picture for most people, but it's more about competence than about fear. Since CGCS is (alas) no longer operating, I'll repost it here.

Proficiency with firearms is a martial art just like isshinryu karate, tae kwan do, kenpo, or tai chi, and can gives a sense of accomplishment and competence just like any other human discipline. The Japanese concept of bushido applies just as much to the gun culture as to other martial arts cultures. I have some moderate experience in the Asian martial arts culture (isshinryu), and there are a lot of similarities between the gun culture and the traditional martial arts culture, and just as with empty-hand martial arts, proficiency in self-defense is a symbiotic benefit that is a worthwhile purpose in its own right.

Just as with the other martial arts, IMHO training and skill development are an end in itself, very much a Zen thing, if you will. To shoot well you must view shooting in a very Zen-like way; breath control, minimization of muscle tremors, concentration, sharp focus on the front sight, smoothness... A lot of the shooters I know also have a thing for archery, which is pretty much the same thing, and my (ex-)wife did fencing for a while.

Some people pride themselves on how well they can smack a small white ball with a stick on a golf course. Others pride themselves on how accurately they can shoot a firearm.

Also, I am a certifiable physics geek, and there are very few inexpensive hobbies that are more physics-intensive than rifle shooting. (Aviation is more physics-intensive, but it's not inexpensive...) Many shooters are mechanically inclined, and I'll bet the percentage of photographers and engineers among shooters is higher than in the population at large. My younger sister is a shooter and she also happens to be a professional engineer, with degrees in both engineering and mathematics.

It's also a "freedom thing." The guns in my gun safe are a tangible reminder of political and personal freedom, a Zen-like discipline, a fun hobby, a tool of personal security, and a locus of camaraderie that crosses political, social, and ethnic lines. I do not own them by a grant of permission from some social elite; I own them because I choose to, and because as a mentally competent adult with a clean record, it is my right to choose to.

...

Here's the root of the disconnect, I think. A lot of prominent gun-control activists are people who have both been impacted by criminal violence, and have not been particularly exposed to the positive side of gun ownership. I think to some degree, they have come to see "guns" as the entity who victimized them, and see gun control as a way to lash out at that enemy. That victimization by people misusing guns also taints their view of gun owners, I think, that we must somehow be either ignorant, or evil, or some selfish mixture of the two, possibly with some sort of sexual deviancy thrown in (because some of those victimized see guns as sexualized power objects). As a for-instance, Sarah Brady's husband was shot by a nut with a .22 revolver; while I don't think that justifies her attempts to ban my rifles, it at least helps me understand it.

...

It's not "any and all guns" that are involved in criminal mayhem; it's actually a tiny subset of guns, mostly illegally possessed handguns, in the hands of a violent few. And in fairness, it's not all gun-control activists that dream up creative deceptions to try to outlaw our most valued possessions, either. I think most of us on our respective sides are not as far apart as our legislative positions on the issue would appear to make us; I think we just have a huge knowledge and communication gap (on both sides).

There IS common ground to be found. The bedrock of that common ground is, NOBODY wants to see criminals misusing any guns. People who hurt other people piss me off just as much as they piss you off. We all agree that bad guys shouldn't have them. The disagreement comes in when people on your side of the issue decide to slap sweeping restrictions (AWB, handgun bans, pre-1861 capacity limits) on everybody in order to affect the bad guys (so they hope), and we respond by opposing all new restrictions to avoid having wrongheaded restrictions slapped on the good guys. Hence the impasse.


Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 189 replies Author Time Post
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 OP
hack89 Nov 2014 #1
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #7
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #10
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #12
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #181
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2014 #182
Maedhros Nov 2014 #2
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #11
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #15
Straw Man Nov 2014 #32
acalix Nov 2014 #112
samsingh Nov 2014 #128
acalix Nov 2014 #137
petronius Nov 2014 #3
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #4
kioa Nov 2014 #16
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #20
kioa Nov 2014 #50
louis-t Nov 2014 #56
kioa Nov 2014 #59
discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2014 #75
acalix Nov 2014 #113
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #132
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #62
kioa Nov 2014 #63
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #64
kioa Nov 2014 #67
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #69
kioa Nov 2014 #72
paleotn Nov 2014 #76
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #79
kioa Nov 2014 #86
paleotn Nov 2014 #96
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #164
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #179
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #184
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #185
kioa Dec 2014 #186
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #187
kioa Dec 2014 #188
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2014 #183
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #77
kioa Nov 2014 #87
sarisataka Nov 2014 #89
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #107
sarisataka Nov 2014 #110
hack89 Nov 2014 #121
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #80
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #82
paleotn Nov 2014 #84
kioa Nov 2014 #90
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #94
kioa Nov 2014 #95
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #97
kioa Nov 2014 #101
Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #144
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #165
paleotn Nov 2014 #99
kioa Nov 2014 #105
paleotn Nov 2014 #106
kioa Nov 2014 #109
paleotn Nov 2014 #135
kioa Nov 2014 #138
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #92
kioa Nov 2014 #98
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #100
paleotn Nov 2014 #103
kioa Nov 2014 #111
Straw Man Nov 2014 #116
beevul Nov 2014 #126
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #166
sarisataka Nov 2014 #65
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #70
sarisataka Nov 2014 #73
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #78
sarisataka Nov 2014 #83
cantbeserious Nov 2014 #91
ileus Nov 2014 #118
stone space Nov 2014 #120
kioa Nov 2014 #122
stone space Nov 2014 #124
kioa Nov 2014 #125
stone space Nov 2014 #155
kioa Nov 2014 #156
stone space Nov 2014 #157
kioa Nov 2014 #159
stone space Nov 2014 #160
kioa Nov 2014 #161
stone space Dec 2014 #162
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #167
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #5
MisterP Nov 2014 #6
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #168
harun Nov 2014 #8
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #9
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #21
kioa Nov 2014 #52
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #53
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #176
sarisataka Dec 2014 #177
Fred Sanders Dec 2014 #173
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #169
sarisataka Nov 2014 #13
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #14
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #18
sarisataka Nov 2014 #22
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #24
kioa Nov 2014 #17
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #57
kioa Nov 2014 #60
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #61
kioa Nov 2014 #66
Fred Sanders Nov 2014 #68
kioa Nov 2014 #71
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #19
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #23
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #25
branford Nov 2014 #114
hack89 Nov 2014 #33
Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #153
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #170
LineReply Ah, the assumption that anyone who chooses differently than you
benEzra Nov 2014 #26
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #27
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #29
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #30
hack89 Nov 2014 #34
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #36
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #39
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #41
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #42
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #46
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #44
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #47
blueridge3210 Nov 2014 #48
branford Nov 2014 #115
benEzra Nov 2014 #119
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #28
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #31
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #37
hack89 Nov 2014 #35
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #38
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #40
hack89 Nov 2014 #45
discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2014 #43
NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #49
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #171
sarisataka Nov 2014 #51
sarisataka Nov 2014 #55
paleotn Nov 2014 #81
sarisataka Nov 2014 #85
kioa Nov 2014 #93
paleotn Nov 2014 #104
kioa Nov 2014 #108
HockeyMom Nov 2014 #139
kioa Nov 2014 #140
HockeyMom Nov 2014 #142
kioa Nov 2014 #148
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #54
doc03 Nov 2014 #58
ileus Nov 2014 #74
paleotn Nov 2014 #88
Socal31 Nov 2014 #117
paleotn Nov 2014 #129
Socal31 Nov 2014 #131
paleotn Nov 2014 #134
Socal31 Nov 2014 #136
beevul Nov 2014 #127
paleotn Nov 2014 #133
friendly_iconoclast Nov 2014 #149
Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #158
beevul Nov 2014 #151
Socal31 Nov 2014 #102
pablo_marmol Nov 2014 #123
backwoodsbob Nov 2014 #130
Warpy Nov 2014 #141
NoJusticeNoPeace Nov 2014 #143
hack89 Nov 2014 #145
Warpy Nov 2014 #146
hack89 Nov 2014 #147
sarisataka Nov 2014 #150
Duckhunter935 Nov 2014 #154
Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #172
Socal31 Nov 2014 #152
pablo_marmol Dec 2014 #163
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #175
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #174
tuhaybey Dec 2014 #178
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #180
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2014 #189
Please login to view edit histories.