HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » But guns are special » Reply #110
In the discussion thread: But guns are special [View all]

Response to benEzra (Reply #109)

Thu May 28, 2015, 01:18 PM

110. balked on the wall challenge

ezra: I thought it was a given that we are discussing centerfires, but rimfires are a good topic to bring up. And yes, 40gr and 55gr .223 JHP penetrate less than or equal to typical .22LR in both drywall and gelatin.

Appears to be so, but other considerations are, which would cause more damage if they hit someone - the most severe damage would occur of course after the first wall. And if the .223 were to fragment, tho doesn't as much, if only rarely, as at greater distance, there would be effectively two bullets to contend with.
As you stated: Now, in terms of damage to the target, there is no question; .223 and .357 create a *wider* wound than .22LR, by a large margin, and .223 *FMJ* will penetrate more than most .22LR.

again here is what you originally wrote: They {ar15's} are an excellent choice of defensive long gun for the home, offering almost as much effectiveness as a shotgun with less hazard to neighbors/bystanders than buckshot or handgun rounds.

Define bystanders. If you meant they were in an adjoining room, not sure they'd be classified as bystanders, but house occupants.
Of course the ar15 is more wieldly than a handgun, which can be better controlled nearer the body, & less susceptible to bumping into things or getting bumped by things (like opponents parrying arms).
I guess a front metal door isn't as safe as a wooden one anymore (the .223 would penetrate it readily, not so much handgun bullets) if you have ar15's in the neighborhood.

I wrote: "By default I assume you agree that ar15s rank very low regarding defensive gun uses. That is actual usage..'
ezra wrote: Not sure what you're arguing here


That is, as low as the ar15 ranks in committing homicide & violent crime, it also ranks low in being used in a defensive gun use (dgu), by rate as well as total index compared to other 'popular' firearms, as you call it.

I wrote: I will stand behind a drywall & paneling & be shot at by a 22 rimfire, you stand behind it & get shot at by an ar15. "
ezra wrote: If you were standing behind the third "wall" in this test, which would you rather be shot at with? The .223 loads that didn't penetrate the third wall, or the 9mm/.380/00 buckshot loads that did?


That wasn't the question; you answered a question with a question. Try again.
What about 9mm & .38, & dirty harry's., or a 25 caliber cf acp, or 25 cal rf (if they make them).

ezra: A basic Smith & Wesson or Ruger AR will set you back about $550 if you shop around, $600 if you don't

You're either low balling or know people in the black market, or it's bottomed out again: june 2013 It appears that the market for the popular rifle has bottomed out. The average price of an AR-15 has in recent weeks returned to the $800-$1,050 range, down from its all-time high of $2,500 (averaged), according to the gun blog The Truth About Guns

ezra: I thought it was a given that we are discussing centerfires, but rimfires are a good topic to bring up

Actually you brought up rimfires first, in the very post 75, so I dunno about what you say:

post 75: AR's dominate smaller game hunting (varmint hunting, predator hunting) down to the level at which .22 rimfires take over. They are an excellent choice of defensive long gun for the home, offering almost as much effectiveness as a shotgun with less hazard to neighbors/bystanders than buckshot or handgun rounds.




Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 112 replies Author Time Post
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 OP
Human101948 Apr 2015 #1
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #2
Human101948 Apr 2015 #3
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #6
Human101948 Apr 2015 #15
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #18
pablo_marmol Apr 2015 #44
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #48
Human101948 Apr 2015 #4
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #7
Human101948 Apr 2015 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #14
Human101948 Apr 2015 #21
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #22
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #8
Human101948 Apr 2015 #12
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #23
gejohnston Apr 2015 #26
Human101948 Apr 2015 #35
gejohnston Apr 2015 #37
GGJohn Apr 2015 #32
Lizzie Poppet May 2015 #92
beevul Apr 2015 #50
Lizzie Poppet May 2015 #91
spin May 2015 #94
ileus Apr 2015 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #9
Shamash Apr 2015 #10
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #11
Human101948 Apr 2015 #16
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #17
beevul Apr 2015 #51
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #24
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #69
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #77
Puha Ekapi Apr 2015 #40
Human101948 Apr 2015 #19
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #20
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #25
Human101948 Apr 2015 #36
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #46
Human101948 Apr 2015 #49
friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #52
Human101948 Apr 2015 #53
friendly_iconoclast Apr 2015 #54
Human101948 Apr 2015 #58
spin May 2015 #95
Human101948 Apr 2015 #64
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #66
Human101948 Apr 2015 #67
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #68
Human101948 Apr 2015 #70
DonP Apr 2015 #71
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #72
Human101948 Apr 2015 #73
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #74
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #29
ileus Apr 2015 #31
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #33
gejohnston Apr 2015 #34
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #38
gejohnston Apr 2015 #39
ileus Apr 2015 #43
ileus Apr 2015 #42
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #47
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #55
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #57
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #60
Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #61
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #62
ileus Apr 2015 #41
Starboard Tack Apr 2015 #56
upaloopa Apr 2015 #27
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #28
ileus Apr 2015 #30
benEzra Apr 2015 #45
jimmy the one Apr 2015 #59
benEzra Apr 2015 #75
jimmy the one May 2015 #85
blueridge3210 May 2015 #86
benEzra May 2015 #87
friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #89
blueridge3210 May 2015 #90
benEzra May 2015 #88
jimmy the one May 2015 #96
blueridge3210 May 2015 #97
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #98
blueridge3210 May 2015 #99
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #100
Duckhunter935 May 2015 #106
benEzra May 2015 #109
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply balked on the wall challenge
jimmy the one May 2015 #110
benEzra May 2015 #111
blueridge3210 Apr 2015 #76
ManiacJoe Apr 2015 #78
benEzra May 2015 #79
Straw Man May 2015 #80
benEzra May 2015 #81
discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2015 #82
benEzra May 2015 #83
DonP May 2015 #84
Matrosov May 2015 #102
petronius Apr 2015 #63
discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2015 #65
pablo_marmol May 2015 #93
Matrosov May 2015 #101
gejohnston May 2015 #103
Shamash May 2015 #104
beevul May 2015 #105
pablo_marmol May 2015 #107
friendly_iconoclast May 2015 #108
pablo_marmol May 2015 #112
Please login to view edit histories.