Gun Control & RKBA

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts) Sun Jun 7, 2015, 04:59 PM Jun 2015

Gun Control contributed to a womans death in NJ [View all]

She tried to get a gun in NJ to protect herself from her ex, but due to the abhorrent permitting process, she was unable to. So her ex ignored the restraining order, which is just a sheet of paper anyway, and KILLED HER..

According to reports, Bowne submitted her application for a gun license on April 21 and went to see where the process stood two days before her death. Reports also indicate the police department had not yet received the results of her fingerprinting.

Check said Friday that he did not wish to discuss circumstances surrounding Bowne's application.

For first-time gun ownership applicants in New Jersey, a person must go to their local police station, take home forms to be filled out, submit to background investigations regarding their criminal history and mental health, be fingerprinted, pay pertaining fees and submit contact information for references. Police will then conduct a 14-point investigation and give an approval within 30 days.

At least that's how it's supposed to work

http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2015/06/nj_gun_association_calls_berlin_womans_death_an_ab.html

O well, atleast she was kept from getting an evil death spewer..she might have hurt someone.....

268 replies

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Highlight:

Gun Control contributed to a womans death in NJ [View all] virginia mountainman Jun 2015 OP

Explanations and excuses to come bluestateguy Jun 2015 #1

Kentucky woman shoots boyfriend to give him the nose job he wanted... Human101948 Jun 2015 #41

re: "The state failed her", she had yet to submit her fingerprints for her background check. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #117

or the state did not get the fingerprint information back from the Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #125

It will be interesting to find out when (or even IF) Berlin Township's PD submitted S_B_Jackson Jun 2015 #255

That really would not surprise me Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #256

And there you have it bluestateguy Jun 2015 #127

That's the *fourth* time you've repeated this untruth. From now on, you've no excuse: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #165

Ok, I didn't realize that was the first step in NJ. However, the police still didn't have her prints Electric Monk Jun 2015 #167

In this day and age of electronics, there is no excuse for a background check GGJohn Jun 2015 #168

No joke... virginia mountainman Jun 2015 #170

"I didn't realize that was the first step.." That didn't stop you from blaming her, did it? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #169

It was the killers fault, but she did make some bad choices along the way, too. Or do you deny that? Electric Monk Jun 2015 #171

Not at all- but those choices are irrelevant. Sadly, Bowne's family has little recourse: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #172

still trying to victim blame Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #178

the sad part Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #177

Well, she is a woman, and may have been wearing a skirt. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #189

No, you didn't. Straw Man Jun 2015 #199

I agree Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #208

Do you know if NJ has a literacy test in order to obtain a gun? Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #188

Some of you may be surprised, but I've come around. Taking longer than 30 days to approve Electric Monk Jun 2015 #175

so two weeks and you still at least partially blame the victim Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #179

The truth is that I just don't believe you. oneshooter Jun 2015 #214

yes, you are right Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #215

New Jersey. GGJohn Jun 2015 #2

They just don't get it at all..... virginia mountainman Jun 2015 #3

That is what they do not get Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #11

I am quite sure Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #4

Did she explore other methods of self-defense, such as pepper spray, for example? Electric Monk Jun 2015 #5

Her desired method of proven effective self defence.. virginia mountainman Jun 2015 #6

It was her choice to want a firearm Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #7

pepper spray/mace is often ineffective gejohnston Jun 2015 #8

Wow, he went very quiet Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #9

So, being denied her first choice, she didn't even explore other options? That seems unwise. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #21

no, it wouldn't have gejohnston Jun 2015 #26

Since we're playing hypotheticals, let's imagine she got the handgun, then he shows up Electric Monk Jun 2015 #47

That was common in gun control propaganda in the 1970s gejohnston Jun 2015 #50

It is too bad Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #52

If she wasn't "intimidated" by NJ's Kafkaesque bureaus, she wasn't going to be afraid to use a gun. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #190

Oh lovely. The tired, misogynistic "women aren't as competent as men" canard. pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #210

sigh Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #216

It looks like the problem sarisataka Jun 2015 #10

Beat me to it. n/t Shamash Jun 2015 #13

Yep, the gun control seemed to work well Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #14

I believe this is the part where the CDC said Shamash Jun 2015 #12

I would be surprised if EM shows back up here Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #15

I've been making chicken stew for dinner, but thanks for staying classy, as always. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #19

Excuse me honey Shamash Jun 2015 #23

Honey? Because I cook? How blatantly sexist of you, but par for the course among gunthusiasts. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #28

I'm guessing English is your second language, otherwise you would have understood what I wrote. n/t Shamash Jun 2015 #33

I got it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #42

Proper English would have had the quotation marks around the whole thing. Putting quotes only Electric Monk Jun 2015 #76

Ah, so you -did- understand it, you just -chose- to misrepresent it. Thanks for clarifying. n/t Shamash Jun 2015 #89

Yeah, he does that a lot. eom. GGJohn Jun 2015 #93

And once again you sir are not the host over here. Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #24

That's chutzpah sarisataka Jun 2015 #29

Have to give him credit on that Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #44

That was disgusting DashOneBravo Jun 2015 #79

Chicken stew? GGJohn Jun 2015 #35

OT: chicken stew discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2015 #86

Sounds good, burgers here Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #95

I bought beef and pork chops yesterday as well discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2015 #97

We had Chicken Cacciatore over Bow tie Pasta tonite. GGJohn Jun 2015 #99

chicken-fried venison, browned red potatoes, fresh broccoli. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #191

OMG!!! GGJohn Jun 2015 #102

That is indeed Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #105

The killer was a previously convicted felon, with a history of violence and weapon offenses Electric Monk Jun 2015 #109

Because blueridge3210 Jun 2015 #110

So you are blaming the victim for her death. GGJohn Jun 2015 #113

Also, she had yet to submit her fingerprints for her background check. But blame the state anyway :/ Electric Monk Jun 2015 #114

"maybe not date that asshole in the first place" Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #156

yep, I agree it is just sick and should be edited or self deleted Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #158

Convicted felon with a history of violence and weapon offenses. What a catch! Dreamy! nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #162

Do you expect people to run background checks when dating? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #163

Victim blaming again I see. eom. GGJohn Jun 2015 #164

"Of course it's the attacker's fault ma'am sarisataka Jun 2015 #173

Well, that's one. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #16

Of many sarisataka Jun 2015 #17

How do you control the suicides? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #18

You keep flogging that 30,000 number like it is useful Shamash Jun 2015 #20

Actually I didn't know that, I'd never seen those graphs before. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #22

actually, if you remove suicides, it is closer gejohnston Jun 2015 #27

I stand corrected. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #30

Death rate by guns per capita is 12 times greater in USA than Australia... Human101948 Jun 2015 #38

For reference Shamash Jun 2015 #51

We also have a murder rate about four times that of Australia... Human101948 Jun 2015 #181

no, we have more drug addiction and larger gang culture gejohnston Jun 2015 #186

And, extending that logic, guns are only part of the solution discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2015 #187

shamash's weird illogical notions jimmy the one Jun 2015 #263

The host here Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #46

And btw, I won't post anything more in here, I just realized Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #25

The gungeon is pretty toxic, indeed. That's why GCRA was created. See you over there :) nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #31

Toxic because of people like you hack89 Jun 2015 #36

And attempt to bait us to get a hide or a ban. GGJohn Jun 2015 #37

Yes it is Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #54

Sent you a PM on a jury results last night. eom. GGJohn Jun 2015 #60

Thanks, I see that Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #62

I am quite sure who is alert stalking me Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #63

Toxic to people who think the solution to America's gun violence problem isn't "more guns". Electric Monk Jun 2015 #39

If we're so toxic, GGJohn Jun 2015 #40

xkcd Electric Monk Jun 2015 #45

The difference between the 2 of us is GGJohn Jun 2015 #56

We do not require a "safe haven" Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #61

The OP made a very valid point about a specific instance tularetom Jun 2015 #161

Who here has actually said that? hack89 Jun 2015 #43

nobody here Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #65

I see back to the cartoons Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #57

Toxic to those who think scraping and reposting cartoons is helping to achieve their stated goals friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #150

Hoo-WEE! Betcha the NRA paid royalties to Bennett to reprint that 'toon. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #193

Yes this group allows all viewpoints Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #48

Seems unlikely Shamash Jun 2015 #32

Beware of groupthink sarisataka Jun 2015 #34

We welcome opposing views here....it's what makes America great. ileus Jun 2015 #184

where are shamash's irrelevant graph links? jimmy the one Jun 2015 #262

Your candidate seems to think that there is an "elitism in the anti-gun" movement bluestateguy Jun 2015 #108

Amanda Collins and the victim after her. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #157

OK and where where the eyes behind her head license due to come in? hollysmom Jun 2015 #49

that is a purchase to buy, not take out of her house gejohnston Jun 2015 #55

I am fine with your other answers but your last line is totally non sequitur. hollysmom Jun 2015 #70

your case is unusual gejohnston Jun 2015 #73

blaming this on gun control is ridiculous and one of the tactics of the most vile gun nuts bowens43 Jun 2015 #53

Thanks for adding another voice of sanity down here :) nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Jun 2015 #69

Yes there is reason gejohnston Jun 2015 #59

And there's no fucking reason to believe that if the state hadn't broken the law GGJohn Jun 2015 #64

The facts speak for themselves. virginia mountainman Jun 2015 #66

name calling is what some resort to Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #68

See post #69 in this very thread for a great example of that. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #74

What the one the user self deleted Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #77

It was a rude personal attack, and he knows with 1 more hide he's back in timeout. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #88

It was a rude personal attack, and he knows with 1 more hide he's back in timeout. GGJohn Jun 2015 #91

At least he moderated it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #92

Because I didn't want to give you any reason to alert on me, not that you need a reason, GGJohn Jun 2015 #85

Yes I suspect he does like to alert. Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #94

and you know this how? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #67

You have made clear sarisataka Jun 2015 #176

Well, it's nice that you think the ex is innocence..... daleanime Jun 2015 #71

Huh? GGJohn Jun 2015 #72

It was the ex-boyfriend that actually killed her, not NJ's gun laws. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #75

actually going by the logiic of the pro-controllers Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #78

I'll remember that blueridge3210 Jun 2015 #80

He does dig deeper Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #82

It was NJ's draconian gun laws that prevented her from obtaining a gun, GGJohn Jun 2015 #83

What if he'd used a gun, would it be his fault or the guns? beevul Jun 2015 #257

The guy could have killed her before she even upaloopa Jun 2015 #81

well since the knife killed her Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #84

I said he could have killed her before she upaloopa Jun 2015 #90

But he did not Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #98

re: "The state failed her", she had yet to submit her fingerprints for her background check. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #112

Does that mean she did not submit them? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #118

If I delete anything you'd still reference it forever, but paraphrase it wrong and out of context. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #120

My friend to blame the victim is just sick Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #122

I blame the killer, Michael Eitel. He was the one responsible for Ms Bowne's murder. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #131

Yes, Michael Eitel is responsible for the actual killing of her, GGJohn Jun 2015 #134

no, by your sides logic, the knife killed her Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #135

A man with a knife killed her. A man with a gun could have killed her easier and from further away. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #139

Well then I hope you correct all of those in your Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #140

Totally different sarisataka Jun 2015 #146

says it all right there Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #149

Truly worth 1000 words...nt jonno99 Jul 2015 #267

Reading (comprehension) is fundamental. blueridge3210 Jun 2015 #119

Try reading comprehension, GGJohn Jun 2015 #121

Then your problem is with Christie's NJ govt bureaucracy, not the required background check. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #124

You'll do anything to defend NJ's draconian gun laws huh? GGJohn Jun 2015 #126

He dig the very deep hole Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #130

No, it is with the gun control laws you and others love Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #129

That is the most contorted logic to support gun bullshit I have ever read. It's like you saying boo upaloopa Jun 2015 #182

Ah, the classic WATB rebuttal. How devastatingly substantive. Shamash Jun 2015 #183

They just do not get it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #185

But NJ's draconian gun laws took that choice away from her, GGJohn Jun 2015 #87

exactly...if she really cared about personal safety, she would have acquired a ileus Jun 2015 #261

I have read the comments on both sides. Allow me to summarize. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #96

Nobody here has said no background check, nobody. GGJohn Jun 2015 #100

And what of the story that my father-in-law told me? eom guillaumeb Jun 2015 #101

What of it? GGJohn Jun 2015 #106

We'll never know because she failed to submit her fingerprints for her background check. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #115

Wrong, GGJohn Jun 2015 #123

That is not what was said Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #132

So you admit the rest of that post was made up bull Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #107

Could you point me to the OP? Shamash Jun 2015 #103

What the original post said was: guillaumeb Jun 2015 #116

I believe you said you read through the comments Shamash Jun 2015 #133

and point to one person that said Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #104

May I critique your summary sarisataka Jun 2015 #142

George Bernard Shaw wrote to a critic of his latest work... Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #194

There would have been a background check gejohnston Jun 2015 #144

To everyone bemoaning NJ gun laws here, did you catch the fact that Ms Bowne had yet to submit her Electric Monk Jun 2015 #111

And again, you're 100% wrong. GGJohn Jun 2015 #136

He will not Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #137

I admit that I've never done a background check for a gun permit. I feel no need to own a gun. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #143

Well many of us have Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #145

I respect your desire to not own a firearm, GGJohn Jun 2015 #148

I've also never submitted fingerprints to buy a gun Travis_0004 Jun 2015 #166

This has totally changed my mind. cheapdate Jun 2015 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #138

Even Texas (and the other 49) require a NICS b.g. check when purchasing from a dealer. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #196

Personally that people who get restraining orders should be issued a gun free of charge... Kalidurga Jun 2015 #141

There is always the chance if she had had a firearm Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #147

Yes, there is that chance Kalidurga Jun 2015 #152

and yet, she MIGHT be alive Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #154

No I am saying that she might be Kalidurga Jun 2015 #155

We have completely inadequate means to address domestic violence gejohnston Jun 2015 #151

I don't think things are actually better. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #153

I don't have any experience in that area, gejohnston Jun 2015 #159

I would like to think so too, but my experience lends me to think that no that support is not there. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #160

So why not go buy a long gun... Historic NY Jun 2015 #174

not really Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #180

But again your just speculating.... Historic NY Jun 2015 #192

And you are not speculating? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #195

The cops weren't but please proceed......... Historic NY Jun 2015 #197

What are you talking about? Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #198

200 : This is what controllers want...a larger and easier victim pool for criminals to choose from. ileus Jun 2015 #200

There is no evidence that having a gun would have saved her life Warpy Jun 2015 #201

We have -plenty- of evidence for what -not- having one did. n/t Shamash Jun 2015 #202

True a gun is not sarisataka Jun 2015 #203

That's why I didn't take police advice and buy a gun when I was being stalked Warpy Jun 2015 #204

A perfectly valid choice sarisataka Jun 2015 #205

I remember the parable of pistols and the sneakers discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2015 #211

well that was your choice and I support it Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #207

Too bad the government and gun control laws Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #206

The Controllers make me want to heave on a regular basis. pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #209

Bet a certain person alerts Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #212

I considered that, but didn't want to hold my tongue this time. pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #217

It will probably pass Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #231

Like you guys don't alert when your preciouses get offended. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #219

I don't alert, I prefer to let a post stand for all to see, GGJohn Jun 2015 #220

Shall I post the results of your last alert against me that went against you 0-7? GGJohn Jun 2015 #221

Shall I post your transparency page from the last time you were in the timeout chair? Electric Monk Jun 2015 #222

Go ahead, you already did. GGJohn Jun 2015 #223

Yes a couple of us have been stalked Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #226

Oh, I have more than a good idea, but it would be considered a call out to name GGJohn Jun 2015 #227

yep and that poster, WHOEVER it is, Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #229

You're forgetting that it takes a jury to hide a post, not just an alert. Your posts were hidden Electric Monk Jun 2015 #230

yes, by juries and most 4-3 Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #233

And it wouldn't go to a jury unless it was alerted on, GGJohn Jun 2015 #235

Must be Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #237

Believe me or don't, but the majority of your guys hides weren't from alerts by me. nt Electric Monk Jun 2015 #240

Oh, I do Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #241

Y'know what? I think I'm gonna take a few days off from the gungeon. Have fun without me. Electric Monk Jun 2015 #242

"Have fun without me." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #243

I think it must be embarrassing Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #244

Now how am I supposed to believe that when you were begging the other night GGJohn Jun 2015 #246

sad to say, I think the other night is the true side Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #248

.... GGJohn Jun 2015 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Jun 2015 #245

"Your posts were hidden BY JURIES." pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #253

I like the pleading part Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #225

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #224

You've called me dishonest, so what difference does it make what I answer, and why do you even care? Electric Monk Jun 2015 #232

yep, that one was Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #234

And I liked what juror #2, juror #5, and juror #6 said about your alert. GGJohn Jun 2015 #238

#2 and #6 are the best Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #239

.... GGJohn Jun 2015 #260

you have to be very careful Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #228

I think it is highly likely you may have alerted on me, but I have no proof Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #236

You forgot "cowardly" Shamash Jun 2015 #213

That I did. And probably a few other terms of endearment. NT pablo_marmol Jun 2015 #218

Apparently some victims are more important than others Matrosov Jun 2015 #249

^Disingenuous, ignorant, forgetful or lying, you decide Shamash Jun 2015 #250

Someone got his delicate feefees sunburnt by the harsh light of truth Shamash Jun 2015 #251

Nice double snap there... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2015 #252

LOL, back to the echo chamber... virginia mountainman Jun 2015 #254

The morale of this thread is... beevul Jun 2015 #258

That is a true statement Duckhunter935 Jun 2015 #259

2 months of dragging their feet...if only she'd lived in a good state she may still be alive. ileus Jun 2015 #264

Compare and contrast... sarisataka Jun 2015 #265

A right delayed is a right denied. In this case, permanently. N/T beevul Jun 2015 #266

Wow - a simple, succinct summation of the entire OP. Well done. nt jonno99 Jul 2015 #268