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In reply to the discussion: More scaremongering about centerfire .22's... [View all]benEzra
(12,148 posts)16. Thoughts...
Here's what you said:
"If cavitation occurs the animal can wander off & be in unbearable pain for days, moreso than with other hunting bullets."
There is no "if cavitation occurs"; rifle bullets cavitate, period, and most larger calibers cause more cavitation than .223 does, since the volume of the temporary cavity is roughly proportional to the energy transferred.
A fragile, light-for-caliber bullet at 3000 to 4250 ft/sec (40 or 55gr .223 JHP, 55gr .22-250, 58gr .243, 90gr .270, 55gr .30-06) will produce a much shorter, but wider, wound track than a limited-expansion, bonded-core bullet (like .223 50gr Barnes TSX, 60gr Nosler Partition, 62gr Remington Core-Lokt) or heavy-for-caliber bullets (77gr bonded core .223, 110gr .243, 140gr .270., 180gr .30-06). But the temporary cavity size is still proportional to the energy.
For killing a large game animal humanely, the wound has to be deep enough to reach the vital organs after penetrating the shoulder. A .223 can create a deep cavity with a bonded core hunting bullet, but it's not very wide, and hence requires very precise shot placement. For example, a Nosler 60gr .223 deer hunting bullet penetrates 18.5" and doesn't fragment, but the permanent cavity is less than half an inch across, requiring a much more precise shot than you would need with a bonded core 130gr .270 traveling 300+ ft/sec faster.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/862243/hornady-superformance-sst-ammunition-270-winchester-130-grain-sst-box-of-20
"it's the degree of cavitating expansion which causes the damage, moreso to surrounding internal organs. Handgun bullets below ~1,000 fps (iirc) generally don't cause significant cavitation, their wounds are often considered akin to being stuck by a dagger or run thru by a thin fencing foil (sword) - the permanent wound cavity."
Yes, exactly. And for all bullet styles, rifles like .243, .25-06, .270, and .30-06 produce more cavitation and more severe wounds than .223 does, whether you are comparing light-and-fragile .223 to light-and-fragile .25-06/etc., or tough bonded-core .223 bullets to bonded-core .25-06/etc. .223 is the least powerful rifle caliber in common use, and it shows.
"After fragmenting, the .223 inside an animal could result in two separate temporary cavities, just like in a human, but greater likelihood than larger hunting rifles for the .223 wound NOT to be fatal, thus resulting in the animal running off mortally wounded & in great suffering."
Choosing a fragmenting .223 bullet instead of a bonded core .223 for hunting small deer would be as stupid as choosing birdshot over buckshot for the same purpose. Fragmenting bullets are for small game and to limit penetration at in-home distances, not for shooting deer. .223 deer loads would be the NON-fragmenting bonded core rounds, like Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX, Remington Core-Lokt, etc., which typically give 18" or so of penetration and no fragmention.
The exact same scenario of a shallowly wounded animal running off would occur if an idiot hunter were shooting fragile loads out of a .243, .270, or .30-06 (or 12ga birdshot, for that matter). A 58gr .243 doesn't penetrate any more than a 55gr .223 does, it just fragments more violently and makes a wider wound.
"Well aware that bullet characteristics are finicky, and that fragmentation is not solely a function of caliber."
Limiting the discussion to modern rifle cartridges, fragmentation isn't a function of caliber at all; it's a function of bullet construction primarily, and velocity secondarily (which in turn depends on the bullet weight chosen within that caliber). A 58gr .243 will fragment more violently than a 55gr .223, more in line with a 40gr .223, even though .243 is a respected deer caliber.
"wiki, eh; most all of this you will concur, but it backs me up: Most handgun projectiles wound primarily through the size of the hole they produce. This hole is known as a permanent cavity. For comparison, rifles wound through temporary cavitation as well as permanent cavitation. A temporary cavity is also known as a stretch cavity. This is because it acts to stretch the permanent cavity, increasing the wounding potential. The potential for wounding via temporary cavity depends on the elasticity of the tissue, bullet fragmentation, and the rate of energy transfer.
Many handgun bullets do not create significant wounding via temporary cavitation, but the potential is there if the bullet fragments, strikes inelastic tissue (liver, spleen, kidneys, CNS), or if the bullet transfers over 500 ft·lbf (680 J) of energy per foot of penetration."
Yes, absolutely. Common handgun velocities are in the range of 850 to 1500 ft/sec, primarily due to the short barrel length (making high powder capacity superfluous). There is some question about whether temporary cavity can affect some tissues above 1100-1200 ft/sec (e.g., +P 9mm at 1300+ ft/sec, or 125gr .357 Magnum at 1600 ft/sec) but at the 2600-4300 ft/sec velocities of hunting rifles, temporary cavity can be a big deal.
What you're missing is that if either temporary cavity size and fragmentation, or velocity, are your criteria for banning rifle calibers, then .223 would be waaaay down the list. You seem hung up on .223 FMJ or light JHP, but go look up the ballistics of .22-250, or .243/.25-06/.270/.308/.30-06 with the light bullets, and get back to me. The little .223 is a rifle round, but its lack of power shows when you compare its terminal ballistics to other common rifle calibers.
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You are approximately five times more likely to win the lottery than be murdered by a .223 cal rifle
the band leader
Jul 2015
#8
+1. Once again, verifiable truth is shown to be superior to mere weight of verbiage
friendly_iconoclast
Jul 2015
#12