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benEzra

(12,148 posts)
59. The gun control lobby pushed the "assault weapon" issue as a way to build momentum
Tue Jul 28, 2015, 10:32 PM
Jul 2015
"Why did they ban assault weapons in 1994? why do several states have bans on them, encompassing perhaps near a third of the population of the US?"

The gun control lobby originally pushed the "assault weapon" fraud as a way to build momentum for tighter controls on handguns, even knowing full well that rifles weren't a problem.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/awaconc.htm

Unfortunately for them, by going after lawful gun owners instead of criminals, by going after the most popular "enthusiast" guns and demonizing their owners, they provoked an activism backlash from tens of millions of same that all but destroyed the gun control lobby. It still boggles my mind that Sugarmann/VPC and the Brady Campaign didn't see that coming, but once the media swallowed the bait-and-switch then it was probably hard to acknowledge the truth without losing face.

The "assault weapon" meme first gained traction in Washington under the supervision of arch-right-winger William J. Bennett, as I recall, who saw it as a way to look "tough on crime" to right-leaning authoritarians, but all he was able to push through was some arcane import restrictions later codified into 18 USC 922(r) that could be worked around by using U.S.-made parts. Bill Clinton later jumped on the "assault weapon" bandwagon, for exactly the same reason (as a way to triangulate conservative law-and-order types) not realizing the ban would be hugely unpopular with mainstream gun owners. Dems paid the price hard in '94, '96, and '00 for that mistake, as Clinton recounted in his autobiography, and the sitting Speaker of the House lost his seat for the first time since the Civil War.

To this day, it never ceases to amaze me how the gun control lobby became so unhinged over modern rifle styling, and how many otherwise reasonable politicians fell for the wacky rhetoric ("they blow deer to smithereens! don't even have to be aimed! spray fire from the hip! only useful for mass murder!&quot even when faced with the incontrovertible facts that rifles are the least misused of all weapons, and that "assault weapons" are just Title 1 civilian semiautos.

"Proscription provides an upper limit to what combination of lethality & accurate rapid fire can be produced"

Oh, baloney. The original sponsors of the AWB spent as much or more time demonizing oversized 9mm pistols (civilian Uzi, Intratec TEC-9) and civilian 7.62x39mm AK's than they did demonizing AR-15's. They argued that "assault weapons" are inherently inaccurate, "designed for spray firing from the hip", can't be used for target shooting, ad nauseaum. You're probably the first gun control advocate I've had discussions with who actually acknowledged that an AR is as accurate as a bolt-action, all else being equal. Most claim it's not accurate enough to be a target rifle, and are surprised to find it's the most popular target rifle in America.

Second, the AWB was all about posturing and "othering" of gun enthusiasts, not violence prevention or even banning guns. It didn't actually ban the AR-15 platform, or civilian AK's; it only banned 19 marketing names, not actual guns. It easily tripled AR-15 sales, leading to an explosion of new manufacturers in the late 1990s and early 2000s; the company that made mine (Rock River Arms) started making accurized civilian AR's in 1997. The only thing that changed after 2004 was that new Rock Rivers and such could finally have flash suppressors instead of muzzle brakes, and adjustable stocks could finally be sold without locking pins. The Feinstein law also exempted by name other .223 semiautos with the same capacity and rate of fire as the AR, and exempted AR's as long as they weren't named "Colt AR-15" and had a smooth muzzle or a pinned-on brake. It also allowed 30-round AR and AK magazines to be freely imported from all over the world, in the tens of millions. Later Federal proposals did indeed focus on bans, but the original AWB mostly affected pistol magazine prices, not rifles.

BTW, if you think accurate semiautos are ban-worthy, how do you feel about civilian AK-47 derivatives in 7.62x39mm, which shoot lowish-velocity .30-caliber rounds and are only as accurate as a lever-action? Or how about those civilian Uzis and TEC-9's?

"Rather than ask why assault weapons should be prohibited since they are not much used in crime, you should ask what overall benefit do they provide to override the potential mass damage they can produce, whether now or if in the future, they become more common."

They are *already* more common (they are the most common centerfire rifles in U.S. homes, and have been top of the market for going on a couple of decades now). Their "potential mass damage" is no more than any other semiauto civilian rifle using detachable magazines (like the .223 Ruger Mini-14, which Dianne Feinstein herself praised as a legit sporting rifle in '94).

As to what benefit they provide? The same benefits as any other small- and intermediate-caliber civilian rifles feeding from detachable magazines: Light recoil, low penetration (especially .223), less costly to shoot, better reserve capacity, and so on. And your own figures show they're the least misused of weapons, as do the FBI weapons stats.

"These type rifles were mostly designed for use in combat on battlefields where rapid fire & quick incapacitation & death were far more needed than when applied to civilian communities."

No non-automatic .223 is issued by any military on this planet, as far as I am aware, except for some police-type forces. Civilian AR's are widespread as police patrol rifles, but the entire raison d'etre of the scaled-down 5.56mm NATO for military use was to allow more accurate cyclic fire than .308/7.62mm, at the cost of some effective range in semiauto compared to .308. Likewise, the original military AK-47 was designed so that one rifle could replace both the PPSh submachinegun (in automatic mode) and the Mosin-Nagant rifle (in semiautomatic mode). In both cases, the ability to fire in cyclic mode, which a civilian rifle cannot do, is fundamental.

Also, how about those designed-for-combat-on-battlefields rifles that were explicitly created to kill human beings half a mile away?



Look familiar? Because that's the basis of a Winchester Model 70, via the Model 58 (yep, a sporterized Mauser).

Thing is, *all* common civilian rifle types are civilian derivatives of military designs, and in turn many military designs adopted features from civilian guns (look at a Remington Model 1908 and a Kalashnikov sometime, or how many U.S. military rifles and carbines now wear civilian-derived Aimpoint optics). What determines whether a rifle is civilian-legal or military/police-restricted is how it works, not how it looks. If it's under .51 caliber, non-automatic, is made difficult to convert to full auto, and has at least a 16" barrel and 26" overall length, it's a Title 1 civilian rifle. Period.
Any thoughts on the article or do you just uncritically accept whatever any GC advocate says? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #1
I like that dual magazine CZ75.....sign me up. ileus Jul 2015 #2
It's clearly blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #3
That gave me a WTF moment, too. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #11
It did have that beginners Photo-Shop look. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #13
It appears to be a pre-expanded expanding bullet, clearly more dangerous than petronius Jul 2015 #16
Uses a spare magazine as a foregrip, note that the magazine is upside down. n/t Shamash Jul 2015 #18
From the article Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #4
The proposals require compromise from both sides of the issue. SecularMotion Jul 2015 #5
So, where are you willing to compromise? blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #6
He can not say Duckhunter935 Jul 2015 #7
"Compromise" is a buzz word for gun grabbers and a lie DonP Jul 2015 #8
So far, the lack of response from the pro-control side blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #9
I have no qualms about the second and third proposals. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #10
That works for me. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #12
Not engaging in discussion and debate gives rise to fears of extremism... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #14
Compromise means you get to ban some now... MicaelS Jul 2015 #23
He wants to ban 100-rounders, he says. Problem is, benEzra Jul 2015 #27
i believe this melm00se Jul 2015 #36
Yep. 20-round magazine, and power similar to a modern .45 ACP. benEzra Jul 2015 #39
What in hell is that thing in the bottom left? nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #15
Just a bit of artistic license created by... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #17
I would call that "artistic ignorance." (n/t) benEzra Jul 2015 #25
I think of in shorthand... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #26
I thought it was a meaningless grip, at first. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #37
Could be a Beretta 92 full auto with a oversized front grip? oneshooter Jul 2015 #19
I thought it was a Beretta too. What the fuck is that doohicky on the front, a can opener? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #49
It is a fold down forward grip. oneshooter Jul 2015 #50
If you mean the bullet on the bottom right, it is this: Shamash Jul 2015 #20
Bottom Left or Bottom Right? MicaelS Jul 2015 #22
Peculiar. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #38
And uninformed Controllers are the *last* people we'll trust to decide which guns are OK. NT pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #21
I don't trust that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #30
Those are the bullets capable of knocking airliners out of the sky, dontcha know! pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #35
And that line is drawn at .51 caliber,automatic fire, and explosives. benEzra Jul 2015 #24
What the founders envisioned HassleCat Jul 2015 #28
No. Just no. You could not be more wrong. beevul Jul 2015 #29
Yes, I understand HassleCat Jul 2015 #32
I was referring to the preamble. Do you understand what it says? beevul Jul 2015 #41
Oh, OK HassleCat Jul 2015 #42
No. The preamble to the bill of rights. beevul Jul 2015 #43
Of course. HassleCat Jul 2015 #44
More specifically... beevul Jul 2015 #46
But they stilll connected it HassleCat Jul 2015 #47
In reference only. beevul Jul 2015 #48
You make my point well. Thank you. HassleCat Jul 2015 #51
People also abuse the 1st Amendment; case in point gawker.com Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #52
Again, no. beevul Jul 2015 #53
How dare you suggest the government cannot be trusted! Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #45
"weirdo gun nuts who owned 50 weapons" oneshooter Jul 2015 #31
I'm sorry HassleCat Jul 2015 #33
Accepted, however it is that type of language that makes gun owners oneshooter Jul 2015 #34
I equate the right to *choose* gun ownership, or not, with freedom... benEzra Jul 2015 #40
indicative jimmy the one Jul 2015 #54
Which begs the question blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #55
cuts both ways jimmy the one Jul 2015 #56
It depends on who you ask. blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #57
The gun control lobby pushed the "assault weapon" issue as a way to build momentum benEzra Jul 2015 #59
Often, art imitates life, but other times... beevul Jul 2015 #60
+1 ^^^ discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #62
vintage 2ndA mythology re clinton 1994 jimmy the one Jul 2015 #61
Nope, wrong answer. In Clinton's own words: benEzra Jul 2015 #63
clinton quotes re 1994 jimmy the one Jul 2015 #64
I'm familiar with those studies, and it again goes to show how rarely benEzra Jul 2015 #58
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