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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
54. nero & caligula, tyrants?
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 01:35 PM
Sep 2015

nuc uni: You're citing two of histories worst tyrants as a legal precedent to justify your position?

Nero & Caligula you think were amongst the worst tyrants in history? on a plane with pol pot, stalin, hitler, Dracula, Torquemada(?);
Hardly, they were too young (29 & 31 at death) to ever have really reached that distinction; indeed Nero's first 5 years are referred to as 'golden' years. Caligula & Nero just ended up run of the mill incompetent roman emperors who done some good & committed a few atrocities plus the usual gamut of rights & wrongs, not the first not the last. Nero's 'genocide' against Christians is probably overstated.

gaius, 4 yrs as emp: Caligula’s ambitious construction projects, craving for luxury and unrestrained squander resulted in his losing the enormous imperial inheritance left by his predecessor Tiberius, and led to crippling taxes, frenzied price surges and veiled robbery. Moreover, Caligula declared himself a living god .. Caligula’s policies led to numerous tensions and conspiracies, and after four years in power he was assassinated

He was killed by his praetorian guard (presumably a roman tyrant's solid ally); a tyrant back then was generally someone who used military power to ascend to power (military coup), but a tyrant was not always considered evil - some tyrants were considered improvements over the erstwhile regime. I suspect 'veiled robbery' as including 'confiscatio'.

(Nero, ~14 yrs emp): To the Romans, the Christian movement was just another cult—a treasonous cult which already operated in violation of multiple Roman laws. Romans were already suspicious of any religion other than those the state had approved, and they readily accepted the Christians as a threat to the state. The persecutions that followed were cruel, but not without precedent—and they’re more suggestive of canny political maneuvering than genuine insanity. http://listverse.com/2013/04/29/9-reasons-caligula-and-nero-were-saner-than-you-think/

In his first five years as emperor, Nero gained a reputation for political generosity, promoting power-sharing with the Senate and ending closed-door political trials ... His most lasting artistic legacy, though, was his re-creation of Rome following the fire that destroyed most of the city... In the centuries followed his reign, the name Nero would become a byword for debauchery, misrule and anti-Christian persecution.

Re: How many Christians were killed during the Nero's persecution & How many Jews were killed during the Jewish Revolt?
... (low baller): A couple of years ago I took a course in Church history, and our professor, after reviewing various sources put the number of martyrs in the first century at between 3000 and 5000. Total number from the first to the third century is estimated at 100,000.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=141841

(How many Christians killed by nero?): Not vast numbers, probably numbering in the hundreds, or a couple of thousand, Christianity was only 20+ years old, the religion was still based in the middle east, there was no bible yet, a few believers had travelled to Rome to preach and had undoubtedly attracted followings but certainly not in large numbers, Christianity didn't come to the forefront of Roman religious life for another 350+ years and even then only 1/3 of the population were followers, so if after 350 years they had only got 1/3 of the population then their impact after 20 will be seriously small. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101122183604AA8YirF

Nero's praetorian guards abandoned him: The greatest threat to Nero’s reign, however, was the Great Fire, which began on July 64 AD and lasted for six days. Ten of the fourteen districts of the city were destroyed, hundreds died, thousands were left homeless, and looters ravaged the city ... he had to raise taxes to finance the rebuilding of Rome, the city was better in some ways than before: rebuilt residential districts, wider streets, brick buildings, and colonnades at street level to shelter to residents from the sun.
The fire, the conspiracy, the numerous insurrections, and the empty treasury led to Nero’s demise. The Senate declared him an enemy of the public and named Galba as the new emperor. Realizing his days as emperor were over, Nero attempted suicide but failed and needed help to take his own life.
http://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/nero

The question I have is Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #1
Very good questions SwissTony Sep 2015 #2
I have a bad connection Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #3
Fair enough. SwissTony Sep 2015 #4
When you find the actual numbers , please share Hangingon Sep 2015 #7
Oh yeah? sarisataka Sep 2015 #29
Do they still allow CC, and AR type firearms and magazines. ileus Sep 2015 #5
Oh, boy. "a fundamental right to self defense with firearms" SwissTony Sep 2015 #6
but you had gun control before gejohnston Sep 2015 #8
We had gun control, but John Howard tightened things up. SwissTony Sep 2015 #13
the fact that Howard gejohnston Sep 2015 #24
it was undemocratic in that he didn't put the question to a formal referendum. SwissTony Sep 2015 #26
because you wanted it or you were manipulated to wanting it gejohnston Sep 2015 #28
Post Script gejohnston Sep 2015 #30
FFS, do you really claim that knife and gun are the same in a mass murder? Which would you.... Logical Sep 2015 #31
The worst is arson. gejohnston Sep 2015 #32
Worst? No, but much easier. Wow, you are not a deep thinker I assume. nt Logical Sep 2015 #33
I was thinking more in gejohnston Sep 2015 #34
2 things discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #9
I'm sorry to say I probably agree with point 1. SwissTony Sep 2015 #15
About that... beevul Sep 2015 #19
A few more things discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #35
people only attack with firearms and in equal numbers and strength? ileus Sep 2015 #10
Sorry, mate. i don't know what you're saying here. n/t SwissTony Sep 2015 #16
He's saying - Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #46
He's saying "Paranoia rules!" Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #55
Are you saying all confrontations favor or are equal to the capabilities of the victim? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #56
Of course confrontations happen Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #57
"It's how we deal with them that determines what kind of society we live in." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #58
No, but I think the fear of them should be dealt with in the appropriate way Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #59
People make all sort of preparations for all sorts unfortunate events. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #60
I have no emotional response to guns, rational or irrational. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #61
It's definitely irrational if you think criminals don't strike in public. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #62
Then we have a very different idea of what is rational. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #64
What is reasonable about demanding people not defend themselves outside their homes? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #66
Where did I say you should not defend yourself outside the home? Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #68
The problem is -- Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #71
And my point is... Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #74
controllers want prohibition for its own sake gejohnston Sep 2015 #77
"If the US wants to remain credible in terms of basic societal norms..." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #79
Wow, I guess I'm learning something new every day Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #81
I'm aware of the Magna Carta and ancient democracies Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #86
You are "aware" of Magna Carta? Well, say no more. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #89
It's amusing that you can fabricate so many things about what freedom is or isn't and yet Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #96
Rationality and emotion. Straw Man Sep 2015 #63
Then let me clarify Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #65
"How one chooses to do that is a whole other question." Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #67
OK I think we're done here Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #69
Explain how there is an ounce of difference about how innocent people Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #70
It only makes a difference if you care about what kind of society you want to live in Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #72
personally, gejohnston Sep 2015 #75
That's a meaningless statement. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #78
Not at all. I don't give a shit if you all carry guns. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #80
For someone who doesn't care Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #85
your stats are not only wrong gejohnston Sep 2015 #73
Further clarification. Straw Man Sep 2015 #76
You seem determined to paint me as some kind of controller. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #82
This is what you, a subject of the crown, want. oneshooter Sep 2015 #83
Thank you for letting me know what I want Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #84
You paint yourself ... Straw Man Sep 2015 #87
Right! Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #90
When the countries in Europe, including the UK, started gejohnston Sep 2015 #88
I could buy a gun tomorrow legally Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #91
Several questions. Straw Man Sep 2015 #92
Italy Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #93
you realize many of the laws are hold overs from gejohnston Sep 2015 #95
Actually, the laws are pretty new and constantly evolving. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #98
there have been changes, gejohnston Sep 2015 #100
Lots of things go back to the time of Il Duce Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #102
the hunting regulation is common in the States gejohnston Sep 2015 #105
Ah, Italy. Straw Man Sep 2015 #97
Not anyone can walk in and buy a gun Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #101
sorry, wrong again gejohnston Sep 2015 #104
Anyone living in the country should have equal rights in terms of self defense Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #106
what evidence do you have race is the reason? gejohnston Sep 2015 #108
These stunts exemplify the reality. Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #110
neither gejohnston Sep 2015 #111
Sorry, not familiar with Air Strip One or Piers Morgan Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #115
Never read 1984? gejohnston Sep 2015 #119
Yes I read 1984 Starboard Tack Sep 2015 #120
hatred towards Obama has little to do with race gejohnston Sep 2015 #121
You haven't answered ... Straw Man Sep 2015 #107
rights should not be up for public debate gejohnston Sep 2015 #94
Do you know how many guns have been confiscated from the total in the country? Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #12
I have no information on that subject, but it was a pretty impressive number SwissTony Sep 2015 #18
Regarding Australia... benEzra Sep 2015 #11
your common misconceptions jimmy the one Sep 2015 #14
jimmy the wizard of OZ jimmy the one Sep 2015 #20
your common misconception, #2 jimmy the one Sep 2015 #17
First things first, James. We have unfinished business, you and I. beevul Sep 2015 #21
Pew's new poll! jimmy the one Sep 2015 #22
I'll take that as a concession. beevul Sep 2015 #23
The pro-gun regulars also don't defend those who work against Democrats seeking reelection... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #25
Exactly. N/T beevul Sep 2015 #27
gun retrieval, not confiscation jimmy the one Sep 2015 #36
Says you. beevul Sep 2015 #37
This is the same person that finds it acceptable to attack Dems seeking reelection: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #38
Yup. It is truly astonishing. beevul Sep 2015 #41
compensation in the buyback jimmy the one Sep 2015 #42
The confiscation, you mean. beevul Sep 2015 #44
So if some future president abolished voting but paid each voter $475 you'd be okay with that. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #47
Tapdance all you want, it was and is confiscation: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #39
You are also using a cheap and obvious appeal to authority friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #40
go fetch jimmy the one Sep 2015 #43
"bring back to a more satisfactory state" Back to something that did not exist previously... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #45
Did the owners have the right to decline? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #48
confiscatio jimmy the one Sep 2015 #49
they offered compensation only because gejohnston Sep 2015 #50
If the owners had no choice and the government did not own the property then it was confiscation. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #51
nero & caligula, tyrants? jimmy the one Sep 2015 #54
holy sh.. beergood Sep 2015 #99
make your argument or rebuttal then jimmy the one Sep 2015 #103
So you cite Nero and Caligula. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #109
revise to worst ROMAN dictators in history jimmy the one Sep 2015 #112
Speaking of Roman dictators sarisataka Sep 2015 #113
not bankrupt, your post is jimmy the one Sep 2015 #116
Words usually have several definitions sarisataka Sep 2015 #118
more pathetic jimmy the one Sep 2015 #122
I found the use of the word sarisataka Sep 2015 #123
Just...this. beevul Sep 2015 #124
Bankruptcy. Straw Man Sep 2015 #125
As I said, weirder and weirder. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #114
some of us have too much time on our hands n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2015 #117
Nothing so melodramatic or biased, james... beevul Sep 2015 #52
"Icon and I simply know how to read a dictionary..." No doubt James can also read quite well friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #53
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