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In the discussion thread: Cruz’s Gun Control Deception [View all]

Response to aurelius2112 (Reply #43)

Mon Apr 25, 2016, 03:51 PM

49. It was predictable.

 

And I would like to remind you of the definition of pretense:
Simple Definition of pretense

: a false reason or explanation that is used to hide the real purpose of something

: an act or appearance that looks real but is false

: a claim of having a particular quality, ability, condition, etc.


Please help me to understand, what you think my pretense is?


You asked another poster this:

Is it pretentious to ask you to care about how the "sport" you love, is detrimental to other people in our country?


That's one example of the pretenses I refer to. The pretense is that it is the hobby rather than the wrong choices of an individual in choosing to murder someone, which is detrimental to the people of this country, which makes it a false pretense.

It is when people act outside their rights where the problem occurs, just as it does when someone shouts fire in a crowded theater or incites a riot.

This is self evident, but not to those that hate guns.

My most simplistic thought - Bad people with guns kill people, when 10,000s of people die in our great country due to guns, we need to do something about it.


But it isn't due to guns, its due to bad choices. Guns are simply the instrument.

I like your fact links and the detailed responses, but how can we move forward?


Think outside the gun control box.

Are you stating no gun control ever?


No, I didn't say that.

I respect your opinion on no referendum, but the quote you posted from the SC does not mention guns at all.
It mentions the bill of rights, but in the justice;s response, he does not list guns at all.


Here, let me highlight the relevant parts for you:

“The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.”

In case it had not occurred to you, amendment 2 is contained within the bill of rights.

Then we'll just add a mental heath evaluation and mandatory training before purchasing a gun
I do not think this point is unreasonable at all.
Why pro-gun activists like to defend giving guns to possibly schicophrenic people, is beyond me.


Insisting that it is a right and not a privilege, is not defending giving guns to anyone. If you can't be bothered to know the difference and to treat it as the right it is, we're definitely not going to make any progress.

Instead, Universal mandatory gun safety training in grade 12 of high school. I'm all for it.

The current laws do not filter out mentally ill people


Good luck. The other anti-gunners will just accuse you of using an nra talking point.

No one's rights have been put on the chopping block.


A ban on semi-auto weapons would most certainly be an interference with my rights. You just proposed that in this thread, so please, don't try to project the pretense it is otherwise.

Get it done at the same time so we can evaluate the person's well being to drive a car and own a gun.
Social responsibility to protect our neighborhoods, towns, cities, etc...


Again, you do not understand the difference between a right and a privilege. When you're evaluated at a DMV, you're being evaluated for the PRIVILEGE of driving on public roads, not the right to own a car. You propose a constitutionally protected civil right be treated EXACTLY the same way by government as a PRIVILEGE. Blind people can own cars, and guns, because owning property is a RIGHT and owning a gun is a constitutionally protected RIGHT.

Compromise:
Of course I want it my way and you want it yours.
But if we both agree that we disagree, then the subject goes nowhere.
If the "people" can agree on some consensus points, then we can pressure our congressmen/politicians to move forward with improving our safety.
I've already proposed many options to many issues surrounding gun control.
Can you share some of your ideas?
Sound good?


What are you willing to give up?

To focus on the bad people, we need a filter to identify them.


Its called behavior. Bad people aren't bad people until they've done something to justify the label.

Any farther than that and you begin to leave due process territory and enter minority report territory.

The NRA:
They show little to no responsibility of how their industry they support, influences Americans on an everyday basis.


The NSSF is the gun industry lobby group. The nra doesn't influence anyone to murder anyone, nor do they try, nor do they come even arguably close.

Ford improves their products all the time and they become safer each year.


Nobody sues ford for a mustang that handles too good, holds too much fuel, goes too fast, or looks like a race car.

The equivalents of those are what anti-gunners want to sue gun makers for, when some third party criminal illegally misuses a firearm.

Ford pays their fair share of lawsuits the gun industry does not.


The gun industry certainly does pay its share. Nobody is prevented from suing them for a defective firearm.

NRA does....


Promotes and lobbies for the second amendment and gun related causes. I haven't heard their stance on immigration, have you?


However, I still believe we need to move forward with some sort of liability for the gun industry.


I can not support holding a company responsible for what a third party (you DO understand that gun makers don't sell direct to the public right, they sell to FFLs, who sell to the public?) does with the companies legally sold legally made product, and I certainly would not want to live in the bland world where it was commonplace with all industries.

I would agree to a limited protection agreement for all guns on the market.


I would agree to a blanket covering all markets guns or not.

I don't think ford or miller should be sued when someone drives drunk, nor do I think DPMS should be sued when someone criminally misuses one of their rifles.

I know the USA is lawsuit happy, but I truly believe the gun industry needs to help make it safer.


Firearms that are unsound are still allowed as grounds to sue. Firearms that function properly are not.

The PLCAA keeps it that way.










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