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benEzra

(12,148 posts)
42. Most Western nations DON'T ban detachable-magazine semiautos...
Thu Sep 29, 2016, 08:46 PM
Sep 2016
It happened in Australia and in most of the rest of developed nations.

Most Western nations" don't ban detachable-magazine semiautos, a fact that you appear to have overlooked. Semiauto rifles with detachable magazines are popular among sport shooters in Canada, most European nations, New Zealand, etc. etc., as well as in the strictest gun-control jurisdictions in the USA (NYC, MA, CA, NJ). The UK and Australia are extreme outliers, and even the UK allows semiauto shotguns of unlimited capacity, including detachable-magazine Kalashnikovs.

http://www.guncity.com/firearms/all-firearms/centrefire/semi-auto/223-rem (New Zealand)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=189580 (Germany, Denmark, Sweden, France, Norway, Hungary, etc...)

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/firearms_saiga12.htm (United Kingdom)

http://calibremag.ca/colt-canada-worth-the-wait/ (Canada)

Canadians can even own a couple detachable-magazine semiautos that Americans cannot, such as the Norinco T97, and the civilian Tavor was in Canadian homes long before Tavors were imported into the United States. The amount of background checking and red tape to own guns varies from country to country, but few Western nations ban the rifles you are trying to outlaw.

We won't win tomorrow and maybe not in my lifetime--I only have 20 or so years left--but we will win.

I am a Gen-X'er (40's now!); most "assault weapon" enthusiasts are a lot younger than you are. The Baby Boomers preferred bolt-actions and the occasional wooden-stocked M1A, but my generation and younger are the primary aficionados of more modern, smaller-caliber designs, and AR ownership definitely skews younger than bolt gun or M1A/Mini-14 ownership. And guess what kinds of target guns millenials most gravitate to. Even Bloomberg himself hasn't gone out on the limb you are standing on; he made no moves to try to ban detachable-magazine semiautos while mayor of NYC, nor has he since. Rifle bans were a gamble by Josh Sugarmann and the VPC to try to build momentum for new handgun restrictions, and that gamble backfired spectacularly and is still doing so.

As far as ownership numbers, states that actually license ownership and hence actually count lawful owners (IL, MA) show that gun ownership in those states has substantially *increased*. Most polls also show an upswing in the number of gun owners nationwide, making U Chicago's non-anonymous General Social Survey quite the outlier. NFA licensure and carry licensure are also up sharply since the 1990s and early 2000s, even as gun crime has fallen by half.

The rifle-ban efforts in this country in this country are primarily driven by a few wealthy Baby Boomers, and has dramatically less popular support now than even 20 years ago, thanks in large part to *precisely* the same damn-the-facts irrationality we are currently discussing. The gun confiscation movement in 2016 is sustained primarily by the gigabucks of a certain authoritarian Wall Street kingpin and old-money corporate media, not the grassroots.

I do not hold all cc holders in disregard, just the 95% (my estimate based on personal observation) that are just paranoid, agoraphobic, racist and too foolish to know what they are doing.

And yet carry license holders are dramatically *less* likely to commit violent crimes than the unlicensed, and dramatically less likely to wrongfully shoot someone than police officers are (even though we outnumber police officers by something like 20 to 1). I think your characterization of us as "95% paranoid, agoraphobic, racist and too foolish to know what we are doing" pretty much validates my point, does it not?

We agree to disagree.

That's *precisely* what I'm advocating---the right to disagree with you, and live peaceably and responsibly by my own choices regarding gun ownership. I respect your choices and your beliefs; I simply ask to be free to live by my own rather than yours.
which is the deadliest round? [View all] beergood Sep 2016 OP
In terms of number of fatalities, I've read its the humble .22 LR DonP Sep 2016 #1
I was told a while back... freebrew Sep 2016 #2
should all semi-autos beergood Sep 2016 #4
nope freebrew Sep 2016 #17
than why is the ar 15 beergood Sep 2016 #3
Because it looks scary and people think its an automatic weapon that the military uses. n/t Waldorf Sep 2016 #18
.22 has been around the longest too DonP Sep 2016 #5
thats for the first beergood Sep 2016 #6
I think it was for a Smith & Wesson pocket pistol DonP Sep 2016 #7
agreed beergood Sep 2016 #9
My great, great grandfather bought his men Henry's and Sharps DonP Sep 2016 #10
screw you beergood Sep 2016 #11
I wish I'd inherited just one of those Henry's or Sharps DonP Sep 2016 #12
Quite a tale, DonP. ^^^ Eleanors38 Sep 2016 #13
Thanks for sharing interesting family history DonP! NT pablo_marmol Sep 2016 #22
will someone beergood Sep 2016 #8
Consider it done GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #20
They do not like any discussion in that group Duckhunter935 Sep 2016 #21
not a suprise beergood Sep 2016 #31
The one that hits you. nt flamin lib Sep 2016 #14
Some data on which bullets hit the most people was just released today... benEzra Sep 2016 #24
Great. Since hand guns kill 5 times more than rifles do flamin lib Sep 2016 #25
The prohibitionists have certainly tried. benEzra Sep 2016 #26
I just turned your own logic on it's head. flamin lib Sep 2016 #27
have you evevr beergood Sep 2016 #30
Ah yes, the slippery slope. Straw Man Sep 2016 #32
As for ignition systems, the firelock was a significant improvement over the matchlock, Marengo Sep 2016 #33
Thank you. We agree on something. That's a start. benEzra Sep 2016 #35
You are beginning to sound batshit crazy. flamin lib Sep 2016 #36
flamin lib advocates voting away citizen's right to keep and bear arms GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #37
I thought the other guy was a bit off. Now I get you. flamin lib Sep 2016 #38
The Second Amendment to the Constitution does not grant a right GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #39
In that case please stop citing the second amendment and the bill of rights. flamin lib Sep 2016 #41
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a natural right GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #48
Okay. Natural law (or rights) stems from a philosophical tradition and is based on nothing flamin lib Sep 2016 #49
flamin lib makes up their own definition of "natural right" GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #50
Should one decide unilaterally that it's a good idea to ban most or all semi-auto arms... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2016 #51
You are not worth my time. flamin lib Sep 2016 #52
Twenty one minutes to get banned and four post to go on ignore GreydeeThos Sep 2016 #53
"Okay. Natural law (or rights) stems from a philosophical tradition and is based on nothing" beergood Oct 2016 #56
Yep. Just like slavery and the way we have treated (and still do) Native Americans. flamin lib Oct 2016 #58
"I know beer is good but you should clear your head and see the world as it is, not how you want it" beergood Oct 2016 #60
*sigh* Everything you cite here is just more philosophy. flamin lib Oct 2016 #61
Don't you know that good and evil is all in your mind? discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2016 #62
am i in the ignore list? beergood Oct 2016 #59
"Well recognized gungeon tactic: can't have a conversation with just one gunner" Nah, not true. DonP Sep 2016 #40
Most Western nations DON'T ban detachable-magazine semiautos... benEzra Sep 2016 #42
Live by your own? flamin lib Sep 2016 #43
That you consider rifle ownership to be comparable to human trafficking and child porn... benEzra Sep 2016 #44
Excuse me but I seem to have missed something. flamin lib Sep 2016 #45
Yes, you have. Straw Man Sep 2016 #47
You have been advocating banning people's rifles all up and down this thread, benEzra Sep 2016 #55
Ya' left out the semi auto pistols. flamin lib Oct 2016 #57
I'm sure you would. And undoubtedly revolvers, and "riot guns", and "sniper rifles"... benEzra Oct 2016 #63
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Oct 2016 #64
Gun control advocacy attracts bullshit artists, like all prohibitionism. DU is not exempt friendly_iconoclast Oct 2016 #65
agreed beergood Oct 2016 #66
But they are not trying too Duckhunter935 Sep 2016 #28
the well aimed one that hits the target melm00se Sep 2016 #15
I'd add.. Littlepawkitty Oct 2016 #67
You're short on criteria discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2016 #16
^^^ Exactly this. ManiacJoe Sep 2016 #19
^^ Yup. NT pablo_marmol Sep 2016 #23
good questions beergood Sep 2016 #29
I have a 300 Winchester Magnum The Green Manalishi Sep 2016 #34
I think a lot of it depends on placement and skill gejohnston Sep 2016 #46
The one that deathrind Sep 2016 #54
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