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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
80. fair points
Sun May 13, 2018, 07:53 AM
May 2018

krispos: .. most violent crimes don't involve guns so reducing the number of privately owned guns by 30% would only have dropped violent crime by 10% or so..

A fair point, only 8% in 2012. I should hereafter note that non fatal gun crime, rather than referring broadly to violent crime, declined during the periods noted, ~1992 - 2000, and ~2001 to 2017;

May 2013, Bur Justice Stats: Firearm-related homicides declined 39% and nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69% from 1993 to 2011
.. Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011, and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.
.. For both fatal and nonfatal firearm victimizations, the majority of the decline occurred during the 10-year period from 1993 to 2002. The number of firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006 and then declined through 2011. Nonfatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004 before fluctuating in the mid- to late 2000s.
.. In 2011, about 70% of all homicides and 8% of all nonfatal violent victimizations (rape, sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault) were committed with a firearm, mainly a handgun. A handgun was used in about 7 in 10 firearm homicides and about 9 in 10 nonfatal firearm violent crimes in 2011.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fv9311pr.cfm

2007-11, about 1% of victims violent crimes reported using a firearm to defend themselves.. A small number of property crime victims also used a firearm in self-defense—about 0.1 percent of all property victimizations.
------------------------------
krispos: If a quarter of gun owners decided to get rid of their guns, where did they go?

They didn't go, national gunstock increases yearly due to sales, offset slightly by normal attrition failure due to age or unreliability factors (ring of fire, cheap sat night special discards). The reason for the decline in gun ownership rate 1992 to 2000 to now, largely, was that new gun owners did not keep pace with increases in population. From 1993 to 2001 US population increased by 25 million people. A goodly (maybe most) % of new guns during that period went to existing gun owners.

US pop -- 1993 260 million (rounded) ... 2001 285 million .... 2016 323.4 mill
1960 180.67 million .... 1970 205 million ...... 1980 227 million
http://www.multpl.com/united-states-population/table

And note your firearm sales graph somewhat corroborates a decline in gun ownershio rates 1993 - 2000, due a decline in gun sales from ~1993 to 2000, for handguns & rifles, while shotguns didn't budge much, remained flat. Read actual sales lines, not the linear line which is a mean or median or average indicator line to fit, ugh, whatever.
Rifles 1993 sales: 10 rifles/1,000 people; 2000: 6 rifles/1,000
Handgun 1993: 14 handguns/1,000; ............... 2000: 6 handguns/1,000
The increase in rifle & handgun sales began ~2009, the obama years (shotguns flat).
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Krispos: So twenty years later, the supply of new violent criminals dropped sharply as healthy, wanted babies grew into young adults and they were in better circumstances.

Fair points; I believe the rise in violent crime/gun crime from the mid 1960s to early 1990s was spurred by the rise in popularity of the semi automatic firearm (esp by criminals), primarily handguns, while revolvers dropped in relative proportion of national gunstock to ~19%, and semi auto handguns rose to ~19% (oddly enough same %, last figure I saw ~2010) - all rifles ~30%, shotguns ~30%, others the rest.

DoJ/BJS: During the two decades from 1973 to 1993, the types of handguns most frequently produced have changed. Most new handguns are pistols rather than revolvers. Pistol production grew from 28% of the handguns produced in 1973 to 80% in 1993.
The number of large caliber pistols produced annually increased substantially after 1986. Until the mid-1980's, most pistols produced were .22 and .25 caliber models. {tho criminals sought larger caliber sa handguns}.
Production of .38 caliber and 9 mm pistols began to increase substantially in 1987, so that by 1993 they became the most frequently produced pistols. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF


year ........... viol crime rate
1960 ...................... 161 ..
1966: ..................... 220 .. Semi-auto coming into vogue
1976: ..................... 468 .. Semi-auto en vogue
1980: ...................... 597 .. Semi-autos in full swing {wiki above}.
1986: ....................... 620 -- '87; 610 - '88; 637 - '89 {more large cal production}
1990: ...................... 732 -- 91, 758;
~1993: gun ownership rates begin to decline to year 2000
2013 ......................... 368 .. still TWICE the 1960's rate
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=189985

A question for this group-- [View all] digonswine Apr 2018 OP
And if you do carry "ready to go", as it were, why? guillaumeb Apr 2018 #1
well it depends The Polack MSgt Apr 2018 #2
Yeah -I know double-action digonswine Apr 2018 #3
even though i dont have guns , i was trained this way too. AllaN01Bear May 2018 #76
First, I understand busy, no need to reply at all to me discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #4
that's reasonable- digonswine Apr 2018 #5
Cool I just haven't seen you around in this group much discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #6
OK-maybe not control- digonswine Apr 2018 #11
I say control is myth because... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #24
By "control"-I was referring to a person's feeling of being personally in control-- digonswine Apr 2018 #29
Like many Democrats, you are logical and respectful discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #33
I can't say I agree with your idea of personal freedom- digonswine May 2018 #56
re: trust and personal freedom discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #58
A few things- digonswine May 2018 #61
A few more things. Straw Man May 2018 #62
One at a time- digonswine May 2018 #66
I think responding to you is most likely a waste of time- digonswine May 2018 #82
If it's such a waste of time, ... Straw Man May 2018 #87
I missed that I responded previously-time went by and I am a busy feller- digonswine May 2018 #90
replies on select if not most points discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #63
I did not see this post- digonswine May 2018 #74
I know teachers take a lot of work home discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #75
I don't want you to get the idea that... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #81
Hi-- digonswine May 2018 #83
Hi back at you discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #88
I did have a great holiday--thanks digonswine May 2018 #89
re: "School is a safe place..." discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #91
It's silly to take the founding fathers' ideas as perfect for today's problems- digonswine Jun 2018 #93
I promise to elaborate but also please check out #92 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #94
I think I covered most of your issues and questions... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #95
You have been reasonable in discussion, which I appreciate, of course-- digonswine Jun 2018 #96
re: I have had enough of it and am probably done discussing it(maybe). discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #97
Responses to a few discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #92
Why are there no warnings on guns that say you are more likely to be killed with a gun when you poss gejohnston May 2018 #64
Scientific American says different-- digonswine May 2018 #67
false delima gejohnston May 2018 #68
I can't agree- digonswine May 2018 #69
if it is locked to the outside, gejohnston May 2018 #70
I will reply in order of your responses- digonswine May 2018 #73
just a few things gejohnston May 2018 #78
There is no perfect response to a situation of an active shooter- digonswine May 2018 #79
If I might interject... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #71
You might- digonswine May 2018 #72
Take a look at this, oneshooter May 2018 #77
Before I retired I lived in a fairly bad section in the Tampa Bay Area. ... spin Apr 2018 #26
Every gun model that's designed for duty use or concealed carry HeartachesNhangovers Apr 2018 #7
It would seem to me that that is not terribly safe- digonswine Apr 2018 #9
If you are worried about a revolver discharging if dropped oneshooter Apr 2018 #17
I am not terribly worried about a dropped revolver-- digonswine May 2018 #85
I carry a gejohnston Apr 2018 #8
Please see my post (#9) digonswine Apr 2018 #10
About 8-10 pounds gejohnston Apr 2018 #14
The "New York trigger" for a Glock is 12lb. oneshooter Apr 2018 #18
Viral videos. Straw Man Apr 2018 #31
If I am carrying something sarisataka Apr 2018 #12
Well- digonswine Apr 2018 #13
I have not seen a lot sarisataka Apr 2018 #16
Hey, welcome to your own opinion! tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #23
2nd amendment mythology excerpt jimmy the one Apr 2018 #34
Speaking of mythology... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #36
Carrying for self-defense generally means being able to draw and shoot quickly. krispos42 Apr 2018 #15
So-- digonswine Apr 2018 #21
Responsible people keep guns in this state only when... krispos42 Apr 2018 #27
I still can't see- digonswine Apr 2018 #28
There's a big difference ... Straw Man Apr 2018 #30
The question would seem to be "safe from what?" krispos42 Apr 2018 #35
I think the main reason that safeties on handguns HeartachesNhangovers Apr 2018 #19
I haven't carried in years, but when I did... aikoaiko Apr 2018 #20
I carry occasionally... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #22
(redirected) British 'have arms' decrees jimmy the one Apr 2018 #37
"...the right to "have arms" embodied in the English Declaration of Rights... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #40
Scalia cited Ben Oliver in heller jimmy the one Apr 2018 #41
And in that regard: discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #43
Earth to J1... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #42
jto checkmates the pretzel logic jimmy the one May 2018 #50
redirected #2, prevention not disarmament jimmy the one Apr 2018 #38
Disarmament tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #44
arms embargoes jimmy the one May 2018 #47
redirected #3, Fort Pownal, Maine jimmy the one Apr 2018 #39
WTF are you talking about? tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #45
Ports mouth, common harbor jimmy the one May 2018 #46
And again with the calumnies... tortoise1956 May 2018 #49
how to lodge a complaint jimmy the one May 2018 #59
more contradictions jimmy the one May 2018 #60
correction on fort pownal jimmy the one May 2018 #51
I legally carry a snub nosed revolver. ... spin Apr 2018 #25
dig on spot on jimmy the one Apr 2018 #32
Correlation. Straw Man May 2018 #48
That last paragraph looks like crap. krispos42 May 2018 #65
fair points jimmy the one May 2018 #80
Most semi auto Timewas May 2018 #52
Neither do many that OC discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #53
Glocks are safer than you say Alea May 2018 #54
Everyone Timewas May 2018 #55
Glocks just don't feel right in my hand. n/t oneshooter May 2018 #57
re you saying there should be limits regarding who carries what? Sure seems that way. digonswine May 2018 #84
Not at all Timewas May 2018 #86
I don't carry very frequently kudzu22 Jun 2018 #98
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»A question for this group...»Reply #80