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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » 911 tells young mother, &... » Reply #113

Response to iverglas (Reply #85)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 06:16 AM

113. So much BS, I actually didn't catch it all earlier.

 

Now, how does it mesh with the belief system that goes:

Better the odd child should be killed by a stray bullet than that I should be restrained in any way in the exercise of my rights as I interpret them.


Hmmm...

I guess it meshes like these beliefs do:

Better the odd person should die than that I should be restrained in any way in the exercise of my free speech as I interpret it.



Better the odd child should die than that my right to not be tortured in police interrogation should be violated in an effort to catch a serial killer.



Better the odd child should be molested than that parents and children should be subject to random inspections at all hours of the day and night including body cavity searches.


or even...

Better the many families (or at least numbers equivalent to 28 families of 4*) should die daily rather than the speed limit be lowered to 15 mph.


...which doesn't even involve a right.


Of course, all people with an adult understanding of rights (and even conveniences) realize that there are payoffs in terms of lives. I daresay that there is no freedom, and few if any conveniences, that do not cost lives.

According to your own logic, the mother and child in this this OP would be acceptable collateral damage. In fact by your logic you intend that the mother and child should have been at the mercy of the two thugs--or should I say "gentlemen" lest you spring to their defense?--who attacked her. (I show my work in post 28.)

The funny thing is that you agree with the basic principle yourself. You think it better that the odd child die rather than that you be subject to violations of your rights as you see them. It couldn't be any other way. In fact, I daresay that you would rather the odd child die than you be constrained to drive no faster than 15 mph (24 km/h), though driving over 15 mph is not a Canadian or fundamental human right. And we're talking LOTS of odd children.

So your horror at the idea that some must die so that people can have the means to protect themselves and their families is unique. It doesn't apply to any other comparable area of life. It doesn't even apply to speed limits, never mind to life saving technologies.

Without your premise--the RKBA is illegitimate, uncivilized and weird--your argument falls apart and it becomes impossible to prove your conclusion--the RKBA is illegitimate, uncivilized and weird.

(And I do this on the understanding that linking to posts by people who may not be present in a thread, as Master Paine did to me earlier this week, is permissible in this brave new DU; in this case, of course, I do it not to attack any individual, but to offer samples of popular thought)


Why don't you quote me? Quote me, in a thread that you hadn't participated in, linking to a post of yours. Or withdraw your false allegation, as you love to admonish others.

I read that belief system as:

However, if you want to bet a life on such chances--if that is required by your belief system--feel free. Just make sure that the life is someone else's. It's that simple.


I bet you do. The Gun Control Reality Distortion Field has shown you no mercy.

And I read your failure ever to challenge it as ... well, as agreement with it, to stick with an objective assessment of the facts.


Challenge it? Challenge it!!!

That's funny, iverglas. There's nothing to challenge. It's so simple-minded as to be self-refuting. But you read it as agreement if you must. Whatever the Field requires, I guess...

Depending on where and how you live, you bet your life on the performance of others thousands of times a day. You depend on the teams that designed equipment you use, the engineer who designed the bridge you drive across, the people who operate your public transit, the people driving the cars around you, the people who operate heavy equipment, the people who treat your water... and on and on. If any of them screw up, you could die or face serious bodily injury.

Some of them are highly educated and trained. Some are not. Some work for the government. Some don't. Some are licensed--like the testosterone-laden teenager who just became a legal driver. Some are not. A great many of them, including the teenager, operate equipment much more difficult to safely manage than a gun.

If you don't like betting your life and well being on these people, your only option is to get a cabin in the woods and live like the Unabomber. You certainly don't get to make them all stop doing the things that they are doing simply because they have the potential to endanger you.

But you and your friends (and note that I am not talking about the public carrying of firearms here, I am talking about the entire agenda in respect of firearms regulation) have some right to require that other people bet their lives on your ... well, I won't dignify them by calling them beliefs: demands; whims; claims ...


Your contempt for America and her legal traditions notwithstanding, our right to keep and bear arms is way above your power to "dignify." There is a right to self-defense, in spite of your disagreement with the unanimous Supreme Court of the United States of America. And the right to the end is useless without the right to the means.

The sovereign nation of the United States of America has codified in the supreme law of the land the fact that its people have a right to keep and bear arms. We have not consulted Canada or Europe, nor will we.



*http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pubs/811017.pdf

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LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply So much BS, I actually didn't catch it all earlier.
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