HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » Consciousness: often even...

Fri May 9, 2014, 11:03 PM

 

Consciousness: often even scientifically minded people make unscientific assumptions [View all]

Last edited Tue May 13, 2014, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

when the subject of consciousness comes up, including Richard Dawkins in this thread posted here a few days ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218128811

Richard Dawkins' own words: http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/91-to-live-at-all-is-miracle-enough

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

Moralists and theologians place great weight upon the moment of conception, seeing it as the instant at which the soul comes into existence. If, like me, you are unmoved by such talk, you still must regard a particular instant, nine months before your birth, as the most decisive event in your personal fortunes. It is the moment at which your consciousness suddenly became trillions of times more foreseeable than it was a split second before....

The lottery starts before we are conceived. Your parents had to meet, and the conception of each was as improbable as your own. And so on back, through your four grandparents and eight great grandparents, back to where it doesn't bear thinking about....

...The odds of your century being the one in the spotlight are the same as the odds that a penny, tossed down at random, will land on a particular ant crawling somewhere along the road from New York to San Francisco. In other words, it is overwhelmingly probable that you are dead.

In spite of these odds, you will notice that you are, as a matter of fact, alive. People whom the spotlight has already passed over, and people whom the spotlight has not reached, are in no position to read a book....

...But we as individuals are still hugely blessed. Privileged, and not just privileged to enjoy our planet. More, we are granted the opportunity to understand why our eyes are open, and why they see what they do, in the short time before they close for ever.


Most genes likely don't influence what conscious-self is created, so you can't really use all of the potential genetic combinations as a guide to determine the chances that your conscious-self could have come into existence. But Richard Dawkins does start down the path making the odds of each of our conscious-selves coming into existence close to an impossibility. When your views on reality make reality next to impossible, you should change your views.

So in the infinite time that has ever existed or will ever exist Richard Dawkins implies that each of us only get one chance at life at most, though he claims that most potential conscious-selves will never come into existence. This make each of our conscious-selves existing right now an impossibility, since one finite life time (at most) divided by infinite time equals zero which are the chances that I could exist at any particular time, assuming there has and/or there will be infinite time in the multiverse.

But I exist right now. So something has to give. I cannot accept an impossible coincidence as truth. Richard Dawkins and numerous other people are not correct in their views on reality.

Many people seem to think something magical happens after you die. Some place in the great beyond there is a record of each of our conscious-selves exiting in this Universe. Once we've had one life we are checked off the list. So something that was possible just before you were conscious suddenly becomes impossible forever after.

There should be no change in the odds of a particular consciousness existing in the future regardless of whether it has existed in the past. It's magical thinking if you think nature keeps records of past lives.

The same physics that created our Universe likely created many other universes. This process likely has been going on forever and will continue forever. Through infinite time, everything that is possible will happen an infinite number of times. And the larger the multiverse the more often the possible will happen.

By my very own existence my consciousness is proven to be possible. It's impossible for us to know what natural brain process creates our conscious-selves, but all evidence is that each of our conscious-selves is created by a natural brain process. It is easy to explain my conscious existence right now with an infinite multiverse. There's no way that I don't exist. All potential conscious-selves have to always exist in an infinite multiverse. No impossible math is required.

59 replies, 13964 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Consciousness: often even scientifically minded people make unscientific assumptions [View all]
cpwm17 May 2014 OP
unblock May 2014 #1
longship May 2014 #2
cpwm17 May 2014 #5
unblock May 2014 #6
cpwm17 May 2014 #9
skepticscott May 2014 #11
cpwm17 May 2014 #13
Igel May 2014 #14
cpwm17 May 2014 #20
unblock May 2014 #34
AleksS May 2014 #51
cpwm17 May 2014 #59
skepticscott May 2014 #35
cpwm17 May 2014 #36
intaglio May 2014 #3
skepticscott May 2014 #4
cpwm17 May 2014 #8
skepticscott May 2014 #10
cpwm17 May 2014 #12
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #41
edhopper May 2014 #7
LiberalAndProud May 2014 #15
cpwm17 May 2014 #21
LiberalAndProud May 2014 #24
cpwm17 May 2014 #40
cbayer May 2014 #16
cpwm17 May 2014 #22
cbayer May 2014 #23
Warren Stupidity May 2014 #25
pinto May 2014 #17
cbayer May 2014 #18
pinto May 2014 #19
arcane1 May 2014 #26
cbayer May 2014 #27
arcane1 May 2014 #28
cbayer May 2014 #29
arcane1 May 2014 #30
cbayer May 2014 #31
arcane1 May 2014 #32
Jim__ May 2014 #48
cbayer May 2014 #49
cpwm17 May 2014 #33
cbayer May 2014 #37
cpwm17 May 2014 #38
cbayer May 2014 #39
Warren Stupidity May 2014 #52
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #42
cbayer May 2014 #43
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #44
cbayer May 2014 #45
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #46
cbayer May 2014 #47
cpwm17 May 2014 #50
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #53
cpwm17 May 2014 #54
Humanist_Activist May 2014 #57
cpwm17 May 2014 #58
WovenGems May 2014 #55
cpwm17 May 2014 #56