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Religion

In reply to the discussion: Creation [View all]

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
114. That definition doesn't really help.
Sat Aug 13, 2016, 08:12 AM
Aug 2016

For example: The appendix on the colon. Certain herbivores need it for digesting plants. But in the human it just sits around unused. We only realize we have an appendix if it gets an inflammation.

Is the appendix a flaw?

We cannot know: If God created the human, and God has free will and a plan, then the appendix might be part of God's plan.






This is the basic problem with discovering God by his actions: No one knows what he meant by those actions.
For example: A hunter killing deer. Is he a bad person or is he preserving the deer-population by preventing over-population?

Trying to discover God by his works or by experiments or the like is a futile endavour from the very beginning: A human cannot learn more about God by using things like evidence or facts. It's philosophically impossible, because God has a free will (-> does not obey fixed rules) and is unique (-> you cannot use statistics to deduce some general behaviour of God).

God can neither be proven nor disproven by using things such as experiments, evidence, witnesses... Because God and the scientific method are based on incompatible philosophic assumptions.



Now, having discarded proving God by science, it's important to be aware of a dangerous double-speak when it comes to "faith":
"Faith" and "belief" have two radically different meanings, but some religious people jump between them as they please.
1. "Faith" and "belief" can mean guessing.
2. "Faith" and "belief" can mean the very specific cultural and religious doctrine of the person using that word. The doctrine itself. Not "faith"/"belief" as a mental state.

When a religious person scolds you for not believing, in 99.9% of the cases they are scolding you for not having the exactly same opinion as him. But they cover up this extremism by claiming to use the innocent 1st definition.

Creation [View all] Angry Dragon Aug 2016 OP
The Fall exboyfil Aug 2016 #1
A whole arm, leg, branch of theology is dedicated to understanding your question TexasProgresive Aug 2016 #2
Theo-idiocy. NT. Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #5
Exactly cleanhippie Aug 2016 #9
That is how my mind's eye... 3catwoman3 Aug 2016 #66
You mean a whole arm is dedicated to making it what they want it to mean. cleanhippie Aug 2016 #8
These people cilla4progress Aug 2016 #59
But ale does more than Milton can rogerashton Aug 2016 #101
Perfection is a false goal. Jerry442 Aug 2016 #3
There is nothing about this universe that requires Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #4
I have other questions Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #6
A) nothing. B) it is the expansion. Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #10
these seem like weak answers Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #13
Sometimes reality doesn't meet our expectations. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #23
It isn't expanding "into" anything, all of space is expanding. Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #45
That's where a lot of confusion over origins comes from. trotsky Aug 2016 #50
Why? Exactly what is weak about them? whatthehey Aug 2016 #52
Those are great questions that should be asked. Religion isn't going to answer them though. cleanhippie Aug 2016 #11
most organised religions already feel they already have all the answers Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #14
Feynman said it best, I think pokerfan Aug 2016 #19
The most sophisticated believers realized the inherent contradiction in this long ago... trotsky Aug 2016 #7
Free will. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #12
it would seem there are no wrong choices Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #15
Who determines wrongness? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #16
Do people have free will in heaven? n/t trotsky Aug 2016 #17
When I get there I will walk over and let you know. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #18
His question isn't flippant. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #25
If a person/intelligence/entity has free will at birth, guillaumeb Aug 2016 #31
Is it also "reasonable to assume" that since we are told that suffering is a necessary consequence.. trotsky Aug 2016 #46
Suffering is a vague term. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #49
Actually free will is all about choices made. trotsky Aug 2016 #51
I cannot answer because I am living in the material world. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #53
Wow, so free will is restricted in heaven? trotsky Aug 2016 #54
Here is/was my previous answer to your question: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #57
Because my question was: "So is free will limited in heaven?" trotsky Aug 2016 #60
You apparently misread my answer. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #61
Yes obviously I must have misread the words that you put in your post. trotsky Aug 2016 #65
So what? Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #24
You are confusing (or conflating) free will with freedom to shop. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #32
No, you're just being intentionally obtuse about it. cleanhippie Aug 2016 #39
And yet you use your choice (free will) to buy an IPhone Leontius Aug 2016 #67
OH HAI LEO! Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #69
Hey he makes lots of snarky comments directed at atheists on the Internet. trotsky Aug 2016 #70
Your lack of understanding is forgiven Leontius Aug 2016 #71
THX BUDDY Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #72
I choose to be born edhopper Aug 2016 #28
What if we substitute the word "flaw" for sin? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #34
flaws a plenty edhopper Aug 2016 #36
Original sin was about rejecting the Creator's injunction. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #48
Still kind of abhorrent, don't you think? Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #64
That was not how we raised our children. eom guillaumeb Aug 2016 #75
nah edhopper Aug 2016 #83
Adam and Eve are archetypes. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #84
I am dim then edhopper Aug 2016 #85
"The bible is clear" trotsky Aug 2016 #89
What do you see as sin? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #91
sin to me is edhopper Aug 2016 #104
Behaving badly. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #106
it is generally accepted edhopper Aug 2016 #107
That varies by sect: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #108
no, not really? edhopper Aug 2016 #109
How many ways can the Bible be interpreted? Many ways. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #111
I still don't understand this: edhopper Aug 2016 #113
And if this statement represents your view I understand guillaumeb Aug 2016 #115
that's fair edhopper Aug 2016 #116
I can give a declarative statement. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #117
thanks for that clarification nt edhopper Aug 2016 #118
See Augustine. Sex is the main event. Bad bad dirty dirty! Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #88
Lol. I can see you believe that, but that doesn't make it true. cleanhippie Aug 2016 #38
Still doesn't explain a universe full of suffering that is mostly incompatible... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #40
What is this free will that you speak of? cpwm17 Aug 2016 #63
If I accepted your argument, which I do not, guillaumeb Aug 2016 #74
My position is a major argument against torture cpwm17 Aug 2016 #77
I have no idea. They just erupted from my fingers onto the keyboard. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #78
If we had free will, we would be able to explain where our thoughts came from. cpwm17 Aug 2016 #79
The corrollary to that is you can predict what you will do tomorrow. rug Aug 2016 #80
Through a feelings driven process, you can plan your tomorrow. cpwm17 Aug 2016 #81
How much of what happens in the brain relates to automatic functions? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #82
Ultimately, all decisions are outside of consciousness. cpwm17 Aug 2016 #86
Well, "free will" really does become a matter of faith for Christians, since... trotsky Aug 2016 #90
I think that unless we know exactly how our brain works, guillaumeb Aug 2016 #92
It's not at all random. cpwm17 Aug 2016 #93
Some random comments: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #94
"The decision to eat potatoes or carrots is deliberately made." trotsky Aug 2016 #95
Who or what made you respond? guillaumeb Aug 2016 #98
No, you made a claim. trotsky Aug 2016 #120
Each and every decision you make, where did they come from? cpwm17 Aug 2016 #97
Prove to my satisfaction that you exist. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #99
Artificial intelligence hasn't advanced with the ability to write what I write, cpwm17 Aug 2016 #100
The Turing test. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #102
Some people, including some scientists, think that consciousness cpwm17 Aug 2016 #103
And if consciousness appears with any sufficiently complex brain, guillaumeb Aug 2016 #105
I notice that I didn't complete my thoughts above. cpwm17 Aug 2016 #110
I might agree that the conscious part of the brain depends of course on guillaumeb Aug 2016 #112
Neurology is not finding much evidence of this alleged free will. Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #87
Being an asshole, God placed the Tree of Knowledge where he knew Adam would eat immoderate Aug 2016 #20
they just blame it on the woman Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #21
She had no choice either. All part of God's nefarious plan. immoderate Aug 2016 #22
A question about God edhopper Aug 2016 #26
If allowing people to make choices is evil, this might make sense. guillaumeb Aug 2016 #33
which assumes edhopper Aug 2016 #37
Not all evil is human whatthehey Aug 2016 #56
Your questions seem to assume that creation is something guillaumeb Aug 2016 #58
So which omni is BS? whatthehey Aug 2016 #62
If you believe in a Creator, guillaumeb Aug 2016 #73
... trotsky Aug 2016 #76
+1 for Epicurus True Dough Aug 2016 #55
Here is an interesting video exboyfil Aug 2016 #27
I've wondered why this all-knowing God didn't know enough to create a female counterpart bulloney Aug 2016 #29
Your last sentence: guillaumeb Aug 2016 #35
That seems to be a stretch, particularly since, technically, female is the "default" for... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #41
Oh you and your facts. trotsky Aug 2016 #47
You notice that when man started understaning edhopper Aug 2016 #42
I'm sorry but... pokerfan Aug 2016 #43
It's all just fairy tales grubbs Aug 2016 #30
Since there is no obvious other candidate world to compare to this world, struggle4progress Aug 2016 #44
Your question is unclear. DetlefK Aug 2016 #68
perfect would be no flaws Angry Dragon Aug 2016 #96
That definition doesn't really help. DetlefK Aug 2016 #114
This is a common philosophical paradox. Oneironaut Aug 2016 #119
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