Religion

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)

163. The Creator created.

Mon Apr 3, 2017, 10:51 AM

Apr 2017

So when you look at creation, the answer is there.

But as I said, some feel that hell is a term referring to separation from the Creator rather than an actual place.

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173 replies

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March 25 good news: 84 percent of the world population has faith........ [View all] guillaumeb Mar 2017 OP

To me, that's bad news. DavidDvorkin Mar 2017 #1

Glass half full versus glass half empty? eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #12

No, it's bad news that it's so high DavidDvorkin Mar 2017 #20

Can't say I agree -nt Bradical79 Mar 2017 #2

Quick questions: Lordquinton Mar 2017 #3

Henry Dawkins for the first two. rug Mar 2017 #4

That's a real stretch Lordquinton Mar 2017 #5

Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #6

Your first post in a week and it's a personal attack? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #7

Oh I think we can do better. For instance wasn't the first slave ship named after Jesus? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #8

Mark Twain had much to say on the subject of peace and religion: beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #9

That's a good, and overlooked point Lordquinton Mar 2017 #10

I thought about that too but for eight years we made it clear we weren't in a holy war with Islam. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #16

That is true. Lordquinton Mar 2017 #17

LIKE pangaia Mar 2017 #36

:) beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #45

Do you subscribe to the "great man" theory of history? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #13

Many slaveholders were religious Lordquinton Mar 2017 #15

Except religious abolitionists went against their own holy book when they opposed slavery. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #18

I follow the New Testament. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #25

Was slavery forbidden in the New Testament? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #46

Fit the concept into "Do unto others" and you tell me. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #54

If that was such an important concept why did so many Christians support slavery? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #57

If you ask me my personal opinion on these issues, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #58

Yes - but again said atheists aren't citing a holy book to support those positions. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #61

Absurd is one word. Sad is another. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #66

They cite the holy book of profit and loss and progress HopeAgain Mar 2017 #101

Oh? We have a holy book? And what's this 'atheist bible' called? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #107

You are painting all people with faith with a broad brush... HopeAgain Mar 2017 #109

Really? Quoting the bible is "attacking faith" and stating facts is "stereotyping" people? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #111

Most Christians do not take everything in the Bible literally or apply ancient laws to modern life.. HopeAgain Mar 2017 #113

Since I never actually said that you're using a straw man. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #114

Taking the specific and generalizing it to the whole.. HopeAgain Mar 2017 #123

Didn't I ask you to stop misrepresenting my posts? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #128

A large number of athiest HopeAgain Mar 2017 #132

A large number of theists do the same every weekend in church. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #134

And we need to remember how HopeAgain Mar 2017 #135

More logical fallacies? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #136

Wow, what a blind spot... HopeAgain Mar 2017 #137

Cite your source please. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #138

And how many different interpretations are there for these?: beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #112

Straw Argument HopeAgain Mar 2017 #143

Again - not a straw man since you suggested there were different interpretations. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #144

Interesting. I googled your religious "scholar" and it appears I was correct. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #145

You are going to believe what you want to believe HopeAgain Mar 2017 #149

This isn't about belief, it's about facts and history -apologists distort both to pimp their agenda. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #152

So to sum it all up HopeAgain Mar 2017 #155

Not quite but we're getting there. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #156

"Slaves, obey your masters": Paul, in the New Teatament Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #158

Matt 10:34 NeoGreen Mar 2017 #102

Define metaphor. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #105

And apply that definition too... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #108

There are literalists, and not-literalists. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #116

Piffle... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #119

In that vein, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #122

You prove my point... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #125

"But religion is a force for great good." Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #11

Patriotism can also be a force for good, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #14

I assume you're trying to make some sort of point here. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #22

The point is that people justify what they do by saying that they are following a code of behavior. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #26

But you can't point to line and verse in the patriot book Lordquinton Mar 2017 #31

I can point to the Monroe Doctrine, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #32

So what book are they pointing to in the writing of those documents? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #33

I am not Monroe or Carter. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #37

So you can't support your claims? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #43

If you are familiar with the Monroe and Carter Doctrines, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #53

Ok but... Lordquinton Mar 2017 #63

I'm pretty familiar with it. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #72

And in an atheistic society like Russia or China, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #78

Russia is an "atheistic society"? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #83

Thank you for your response. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #84

That's a fairly audacious deployment of snark given how egregiously wrong you are. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #99

[ Citation Required ] AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #103

[ Clarification of meaning required ] guillaumeb Mar 2017 #106

Please provide an example of nationalism being a 'good thing'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #110

I leave that to each individual. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #117

But you made a claim... and you refuse to support it? AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #140

If you insist, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #141

MIGHT be an example of nationalism. Not all soldiers do so. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #146

Ohh..ohh...May I play?... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #120

Nicey done. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #139

Thanks, and classifying people as the 'other' also works for... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #150

Why isn't slavery forbidden in the ten commandments? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #19

Proving that people can quote excerpts from the Old Testament. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #27

That is actually not what was said Lordquinton Mar 2017 #35

But it was a point that I wished to make. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #38

You wanted to make an unrelated point? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #44

Straw man. Please show me where I discussed and/or determined their motivation. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #47

I make no such claims. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #55

False equivalency. There is no holy book instructing atheists to enslave, torture and murder people. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #59

If any wish to whitewash history here I will join you. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #60

And I focus on religion's victims because they're often ignored when people discuss the good news. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #64

Very true. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #67

Those who decry harsh religious beliefs always need to look closer to home. gordianot Mar 2017 #34

Indeed. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #48

Correct gordianot Mar 2017 #49

One of those so called bathroom bills just failed in Tennessee. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #50

For the most part religion has been a positive force in my life. hrmjustin Mar 2017 #21

Mine also. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #28

The good news, as you say, is when that faith Htom Sirveaux Mar 2017 #23

True. Very true. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #29

All faith is logically arrogance Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #24

Faith is about belief. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #30

or is it about suspending disbelief JenniferJuniper Mar 2017 #39

Or is it.......... guillaumeb Mar 2017 #40

It's not just believing in something that cannot be "proven" JenniferJuniper Mar 2017 #41

And that huge difference in our viewpoints is understood. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #42

We were often told to believe. And not to ask for proofs Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #69

Metaphoric lobotomies? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #70

Jesuit schools ARE better than Catechism class. Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #73

The last shall be first: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #79

In that case? Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #100

Going back to scientific illiteracy: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #104

Paul and Jesus twisted the Old Testament into spiritual metaphors Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #148

Consider the circumstances. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #153

But? These hells were real. Physical. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #157

But the vision of what constitutes hell is changeable. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #159

But the notion of a miserable place is core? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #160

The physical misery is mainly metaphorical. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #161

To your mind, did God create anything physical at all? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #162

The Creator created. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #163

In my reading, "hell" is short for "sheol." Which stood for the underground. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #164

Interersting questions. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #168

Where is your evidence for that statement? trotsky Apr 2017 #166

I was asked what my view was. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #169

You made it as a statement of fact, when it is absolutely not. trotsky Apr 2017 #171

In an opinion piece, one can expect to read opinions. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #172

Awesome. another quote for me to clip and save. trotsky Apr 2017 #173

Good news? Religion has been the cause of murder, torture, wars, oppression The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #51

Yeah, along with greed, anger, jealousy and megalomania.. whathehell Mar 2017 #52

An excellent answer. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author ymetca Mar 2017 #62

There is oppression being committed by the nominally atheistic rulers in Russia. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #68

False equivalency. They may BE atheists but they don't do it in the name of atheism. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #71

What can you know of their actual motivation? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #80

Two reasons. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #86

Perhaps they hide their motivation. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #89

Well, I'm not a mind reader, but I see no reason to think, for the additional reasons I outlined, AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #92

Wait. What? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #75

Good point. I assumed he was referring to the Soviet era. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #87

You mean oppression carried out by the Orthodox rulers Lordquinton Mar 2017 #76

You should keep up - Putin and the ROC are responsible for oppressing lgbt people in Russia. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #115

From your source: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #118

Ah the return of the No True Scotsman. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #121

The article you posted proves nothing of the sort. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #124

It's proof that religious leaders are responsible for anti-lgbt discrimination in Russia. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #126

Clearly these videos are proof guillaumeb Mar 2017 #127

Does the Pope go to interfaith services claiming to be a devout Jew or Muslim? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #130

No they're proof that both men pray and accept communion just like other theists. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #131

On balance... Snackshack Mar 2017 #65

Would I rather live in a secular country edhopper Mar 2017 #74

"We hold these truths to be self evident....." guillaumeb Mar 2017 #81

Yes, it always has been edhopper Mar 2017 #85

I believe that there is much distance between ideal and practice. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #88

And do you think any country edhopper Mar 2017 #90

Any type of theocracy would not be my preferred country. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #91

So whether edhopper Mar 2017 #93

Good and evil both exist in the actions of people. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #94

and the gods edhopper Mar 2017 #95

Perhaps the Creator feels that free will is what is meant by guillaumeb Mar 2017 #96

I am told edhopper Mar 2017 #97

I certainly cannot. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #98

Religion can be a force for great good radical noodle Mar 2017 #77

I agree. Nuance is appreciated. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #82

The only time religion is good is when BigRig Mar 2017 #129

I disagree, but welcome to DU. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #133

Does the following reflect your sentiment?... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #142

Close BigRig Mar 2017 #147

Men are at the forefront of the "pissing-while-standing"-movement. DetlefK Mar 2017 #151

But who decides what is considered more influential? eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #154

One doesn't really need to "search" for bad things religious people do. trotsky Apr 2017 #165

Exactly what I AM doing. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #167

You're doing part of it. trotsky Apr 2017 #170