To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible [View all]

Thomas Of Aquinas, a Christian philosopher.

To paraphrase, to a theist, faith requires no proof. One has faith, or one does not. In contrast, Satoshi Kanazawa, a self-described
Scientific Fundamentalist:

Unfortunately, there are many other misconceptions about science. One of the most common misconceptions concerns the so-called “scientific proofs.” Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a scientific proof.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

So in all the debate over faith, and faith versus science, it appears that many non-theists insist on proof of faith. Proof in a scientific sense. As well to ask why Einstein or Hawkins are not mentioned in the Bible.

And if a non-theist asks why faith is, or why it persists, a theist would answer that faith persists because the Creator persists.

Thoughts?

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142 replies	Author	Time	Post
To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible [View all]	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	OP
Einstein is too honorable to be mentioned in the Bible.	Dawson Leery	Aug 2017	#1
But, he did say this:	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#3
He also thought quantum mechanics was a bunch of bunk	Lordquinton	Aug 2017	#14
Proving that Einstein was not omniscient.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#24
Einstein changed his mind when presented with evidence.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#76
Why does a Muslim's faith persist if his faith is "wrong" according to your faith?	Binkie The Clown	Aug 2017	#2
Your questions presuppose that I believe that these paths are wrong.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#4
Just like unicorns are so far advanced that all we can perceive are traces of their actions.	Binkie The Clown	Aug 2017	#5
I knew it. A person of faith.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#6
A garage is no place for a unicorn ..... a meadow is better	Angry Dragon	Aug 2017	#12
You can't leave unicorns in the meadow because the trolls will eat them.	Voltaire2	Aug 2017	#72
The trolls only eat them because the Succubus have completely obliterated the trolls' natural food	Heddi	Aug 2017	#95
you are right	larwdem	Aug 2017	#62
Could we cut the mockery?...Not every believer is a dummy or a nut job	whathehell	Aug 2017	#104
Mockery is an important tool for some. eom	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#107
The problem with faith is this:	Binkie The Clown	Aug 2017	#108
Faith is a belief in the unprovable.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#139
I have faith that my invisible unicorn will poop gold bricks.	Binkie The Clown	Aug 2017	#140
If your beliefs are convincing to you, THAT is the key.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#141
The problem with you post is this:	whathehell	Aug 2017	#142
Personal experience is the ultimate anecdote.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#115
No you can't.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#77
The problem with faith is	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#7
If you are an atheist,	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#8
I dunno,	Eko	Aug 2017	#9
I cannot know.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#21
No, no, no.	Eko	Aug 2017	#27
Assuming that the Creator would so manifest, and playing the role of scientist,	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#30
There are multiple tests	Eko	Aug 2017	#35
These tests were devised by human scientists.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#40
Ill take that chance.	Eko	Aug 2017	#55
You did ask for what tests	Eko	Aug 2017	#60
In the Bible, in Exodus 33, Moses wanted to look upon God's form	Mariana	Aug 2017	#68
I notice the claims of god manifesting as burning bushes and towers of fire has dropped precipitousl	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#78
one instance	edhopper	Aug 2017	#44
Why did the universe come into being?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#47
why do you need a why?	edhopper	Aug 2017	#51
Not how, why?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#52
Why does there need to be a why	edhopper	Aug 2017	#59
Why do you need a why?	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#61
Why do you need there to be a 'why'?	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#80
I'm an agnostic	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#10
So he is unknowable?	Eko	Aug 2017	#11
Why is that balderdash?	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#15
For what reason do you say this?	Eko	Aug 2017	#29
Because we can see that tbere are no dragons	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#89
Because you presuppose omniscience and omnipotence.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#81
If it is omnipotent, it can avoid being percieved	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#90
Exactly.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#91
I suppose I am an agnostic atheist too.	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#92
so God	edhopper	Aug 2017	#17
Good point	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#18
We know were the concept arose	edhopper	Aug 2017	#19
I don't accept it	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#20
I wasn't trying to confront you	edhopper	Aug 2017	#26
I think it is hard-wired into our brains	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#63
yes	edhopper	Aug 2017	#66
Did William of Occam believe in a Creator?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#31
Did he apply his own reasoning to God?	edhopper	Aug 2017	#34
An understanding that is still far from complete.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#38
yet accurate	edhopper	Aug 2017	#41
Accurate as far as it goes.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#43
so you are going with	edhopper	Aug 2017	#45
I am a person of faith who admits that my faith is not in any way based on science.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#49
You keep insisting that we must consider "why" the universe exists.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#129
People do ask "why" about many things. Is the asking itself necessary?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#132
SOME people do ask 'why' about the existence of the universe.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#135
I understand.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#137
I believe he did	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#37
And he did have faith, even while knowing it was unprovable.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#46
He didn't believe it was unprovable	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#57
Ockham.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#82
Speculation, but it can be interesting to speculate.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#102
When the church muzzled William of Ockham, how was our understanding of the universe and our place	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#114
But even in science nothing is considered truly provable.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#22
depends on whose philosophy of science you go by	edhopper	Aug 2017	#32
Which is why faith and science do not compete. eom	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#33
Until people of faith contend something happened or exists	edhopper	Aug 2017	#36
lots of things are truly provable	Voltaire2	Aug 2017	#71
not all gods have been defined as omni-*.	Voltaire2	Aug 2017	#70
I thought athiests did not believe in gods ........ agnostics did not know if gods exist	Angry Dragon	Aug 2017	#13
Atheists do not see any evidence to believe in the god hypothesis.	Moostache	Aug 2017	#83
Correct. Gnosticism is about knowledge, Theism is about Faith.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#84
Getting semantic about what Science is and how it does it	Lordquinton	Aug 2017	#16
Science has its methods.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#23
Yes,	Eko	Aug 2017	#65
All Damn Day.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#85
No.	Act_of_Reparation	Aug 2017	#93
faith is an opinion formed in the absence of fact. nt	msongs	Aug 2017	#25
Yes, it is. Faith is belief and the realization that the belief is unprovable.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#28
that is a different category	edhopper	Aug 2017	#39
But unprovable also.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#42
its a philosophical opinion	edhopper	Aug 2017	#48
It is unprovable, thus a matter of faith.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#50
no	edhopper	Aug 2017	#53
YOU believe it is unprovable. Today that may be so, overall.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#86
Belief in democracy is a combination of evidence and value	marylandblue	Aug 2017	#56
I cannont see the wind, and yet I can see the effects of the wind...	Docreed2003	Aug 2017	#54
The wind is quite visible and measurable	edhopper	Aug 2017	#64
All of those measures are the effects of the wind...	Docreed2003	Aug 2017	#67
Thanks for the thoughtful answer	edhopper	Aug 2017	#75
You can see the wind in a variety of ways.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#88
I'm a fairly ardent atheist.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#87
Always thought Aquinas was full of shit	Bradshaw3	Aug 2017	#58
I'm not sure this makes sense.	ExciteBike66	Aug 2017	#69
That's a really slick argument you got there.	Act_of_Reparation	Aug 2017	#73
To one who has faith, no explanation is possible.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#74
No, I stand by the quotation.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#96
Well, faith certainly is useful when it comes to supernatural stuff.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#98
If I may ask, what has inspired this outpouring of reflections on faith?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#99
Oddly, your statement doesn't seem connected to your title.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#100
I personally find it interesting that some of the atheists here feel that a belief can be	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#101
I would never call a belief a non-belief.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#103
The " number of steps" person sounds as if he might have an OCD issue.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#105
Yes, no doubt he did.	MineralMan	Aug 2017	#106
What do you think Donald Trump believes, and should his beliefs go unchallenged?	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#119
I think that Donald Trump believes in himself.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#122
Nice dodge.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#125
You did ask.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#126
No you didn't. Observe.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#127
Trump self-describes as a Christian.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#130
And?	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#133
That is my judgment/analysis of Trump.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#134
SHOULD HIS BELIEFS GO UNCHALLENGED?	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#136
Trump's actions are challenged every day.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#138
Oh good, we're at that point in a conversation where you insist atheism is a belief.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#118
Do you believe that there is/there are no god/gods?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#121
No. I do not believe your (and others) claims that there is a god.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#124
Maybe we don't seek an echo chamber?	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#117
Logical error. If you could prove god exists, people would still have to chose to have faith or not	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#116
A logical error.	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#120
I believe the Seahawks can win the next super bowl. They've proven in the past they CAN.	AtheistCrusader	Aug 2017	#123
Silly poo	LovesPNW	Aug 2017	#79
And yet, Anselm defined theology as "faith seeking understanding"	Htom Sirveaux	Aug 2017	#94
And what is the understanding that is pursued?	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#97
Careful, now.	Act_of_Reparation	Aug 2017	#109
And never end. eom	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#110
Wisdom, after the manner of Socrates,	Htom Sirveaux	Aug 2017	#111
Anslem said:	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#112
Indeed, so that raises the question	Htom Sirveaux	Aug 2017	#113
but if there is no such thing as a creator there goes their argument why faith persists.	samnsara	Aug 2017	#128
Faith in a Creator presupposes the existence of a Creator. eom	guillaumeb	Aug 2017	#131