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Religion

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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Thu Nov 16, 2017, 02:05 PM Nov 2017

Real respect for others beliefs [View all]

If I hear the words "Merry Christmas", I do not assume any motivation other than a seasonal greeting.

If I hear "God bless you" after a sneeze, I do not assume any motivation other than courtesy.

If I hear "God damn" in a conversation, or "go to hell", I do not assume that the speaker is asking God to damn me, or that the speaker is praying that I go to hell.

If, as regularly happens, a person comes to my door with a religious pamphlet, I do not assume that they are attacking my own faith or even asking what faith I might have. That has literally never happened. What happens is that they ask if they can talk to me about whatever it is that they believe. When I say no, I am not interested, as I always do, they thank me for my time and wish me a good day.

And that is the entirety of the interaction.

It seems to me that true tolerance lies in not assuming any negative motivation on the part of another unless there is direct evidence of such negative motivation.

Others may disagree. Others may feel that there is literally no place for any personal expression of faith outside of the home, and they are welcome to those undoubtedly sincere feelings.

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Real respect for others beliefs [View all] guillaumeb Nov 2017 OP
THIS is what I would expect to see... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #1
My feeling as well. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #51
Coming to my private home to sell me their religious belierfs is not respect Merlot Nov 2017 #86
The amazing thing is their faith... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #91
You're shitting me, right? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #93
If you don't think that people of faith... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #94
Don't forget, they're absolutely not trying to recruit you. Mariana Nov 2017 #108
I don't know why you think it's an "amazing thing" Mariana Nov 2017 #99
I know many good Christians who do good things for people... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #101
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations Mariana Nov 2017 #102
You're conflating doing good with some notion of "recruitment." yallerdawg Nov 2017 #103
Preaching the gospel, making people into disciples, Mariana Nov 2017 #104
It's as if I didn't post a comment directly refuting your claim. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #106
A true religion comes from within, anything else is a myth Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #140
Haven't you said Lordquinton Nov 2017 #116
Non sequitur. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #121
How ironic Lordquinton Nov 2017 #122
Not at all the same thing! yallerdawg Nov 2017 #123
Explain how it's not the same thing Lordquinton Nov 2017 #124
How do you confuse "sin" and "respect?" yallerdawg Nov 2017 #126
You seem really confused on the issue Lordquinton Nov 2017 #127
I'm not at all confused, and declaring I am doesn't make it so. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #129
wat Lordquinton Nov 2017 #132
It's 'wott'. Heheh. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #136
I totally agree with you, guillaumeb. Honestly, when I say "Merry Christmas," I'm thinking more Glorfindel Nov 2017 #2
Thank you. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #23
TIL "real respect" means preserving religious privilege. trotsky Nov 2017 #3
How is it *you* didn't get some snide comment about sarcasm? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #10
Thank you for your contribution. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #24
Thank you for your acknowledgment! n/t trotsky Nov 2017 #61
I don't think "respect" is the correct word here. ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #4
It is both in my view. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #31
So we are talking about respecting people, not necessarily respecting the beliefs themselves? nt ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #57
Of course. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #95
Ok, so maybe we shouldn't title our post "Real respect for others beliefs" then eom ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #110
You don't get upset when people like you say things you might say? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #5
Sarcasm. The weapon of the weak. Nitram Nov 2017 #7
"Quotes. The weapon of the pretentious, the unoriginal, and vapid." Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #9
If you consider John Knowles pretentious, unoriginal and vapid, the you are right. Nitram Nov 2017 #15
The thing is that it isn't the person being quoted who is pretentious, unoriginal and vapid. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #39
Then you completely failed to get the point. Nitram Nov 2017 #50
It was obvious. nt. Mariana Nov 2017 #52
Thank you for your insight. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #25
Personally, I always reply in the way as the speaker. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #32
"I see" Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #42
And not having lived my life, you have no idea of my experiences either. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #45
Oh, for fuck's sake. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #58
Oh, reparation, you sound so very angry, unhappy, and persecuted. Nitram Nov 2017 #60
30+ Examples of Christian Privilege trotsky Nov 2017 #65
I'm sorry, just because we're in a minority doesn't mean we're being persecuted. Nitram Nov 2017 #71
Fallacy of relative privation again, along with a straw man. trotsky Nov 2017 #73
So much anger. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #96
Nope. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #153
We all cherish our illusions, do we not? eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #167
Not as much as some cherish their privilege. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #179
You did? You were? You are? end of message sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #137
A nice one. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #166
A of R sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #173
We are supposed to have religious tolerance written into our Constitution. Nitram Nov 2017 #6
Are we? trotsky Nov 2017 #11
Does tolerance imply respect? Nitram Nov 2017 #16
Then do we respect the beliefs of those who are anti-choice? trotsky Nov 2017 #20
One can respect their right to those beliefs, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #33
Exactly! Nitram Nov 2017 #36
Then you're telling those people their beliefs are wrong. trotsky Nov 2017 #64
You misunderstood again. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #97
Yes, my mistake. trotsky Nov 2017 #182
Yes, it was, but you compounded by more misframing. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #190
But yet you won't explain how I misframed. trotsky Nov 2017 #194
Not ar all. Referring to intelligence. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #199
My tactic of asking you to explain yourself? trotsky Nov 2017 #200
Keep illustrating my point. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #201
Yes, we've established this. My pattern of asking you to explain your "point." trotsky Nov 2017 #202
We respect their right to hold that opinion and we work to get enough votes to prevent their Nitram Nov 2017 #34
"We respect their right to hold that opinion" trotsky Nov 2017 #62
Either you haven't been listening, or I haven't explained myself clearly. Nitram Nov 2017 #66
Then you are arguing against guillaumeb's strawman. trotsky Nov 2017 #67
Madison--you know, one of the main writers of the Constitution--didn't want ministers Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #13
Cuthbert, are you saying that the Constitution allows you to go out and kill or imprison Nitram Nov 2017 #17
What the actual fuck is with your immediate turn to violence? trotsky Nov 2017 #22
I'm being entirely honest. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Nitram Nov 2017 #35
It really is odd that you say that, Nitram. Mariana Nov 2017 #38
Grow up and stop whining. You are not being burned at the stake or lynched, or being denied the vote Nitram Nov 2017 #49
First world problems indeed, starting with the OP. Mariana Nov 2017 #54
I am very interested in discussing tolerance and respect because it appears to me some people Nitram Nov 2017 #59
Ah, there it is. trotsky Nov 2017 #69
How very clever. Is that a quote or an original idea of yours? Nitram Nov 2017 #72
I'm simply pointing out you are employing that fallacy. trotsky Nov 2017 #74
Trotsky, that icepick must still be firmly lodged in your forebrain. Nitram Nov 2017 #77
I'm glad you can see that the fallacy of relative privation is wrong to use. trotsky Nov 2017 #79
You can dish it out but you just can't take it. Nitram Nov 2017 #83
Just FYI. trotsky Nov 2017 #84
Let's see. You compared me to a right winger in post #69. Nitram Nov 2017 #87
I am content to let my words stand for themselves and let readers judge from the context. trotsky Nov 2017 #88
I was entirely aware of the context. I took issue with the ideas some were expressing in the thread. Nitram Nov 2017 #89
"jumping all over someone who suggests tolerance rather than outrage" trotsky Nov 2017 #90
Not to bring up something you got ruffled about before when Trotsky said Lordquinton Nov 2017 #184
OK, so you equate me with right wingers who always excuse their insults with jokes? Nitram Nov 2017 #207
Congrats, I think you're getting the point. trotsky Nov 2017 #63
I don't agree that it is religious intolerance. We have a right to choose what to read. Nitram Nov 2017 #68
Great! trotsky Nov 2017 #70
Trotsky, get a grip. Nitram Nov 2017 #75
"it is better to just ignore shit we don't like if it doesn't actually harm us" trotsky Nov 2017 #76
I'm sorry you feel embarrassed about your inability to understand the difference between Nitram Nov 2017 #78
Fallacy of relative privation. n/t trotsky Nov 2017 #80
Trosky, old chum, I don't believe you really understand the fallacy of relative privation. Nitram Nov 2017 #82
What's with this sudden rash Lordquinton Nov 2017 #185
By the way, Trotsky, I have not been expressing guillaumeb point of view, I have been Nitram Nov 2017 #81
As well as separation of Church and State. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #26
Are any here actors of the state? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #186
I have no idea. I am a retired Federal worker. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #191
So you know that the first amendment doesn't apply here Lordquinton Nov 2017 #204
The First Amendment protects individual speakers from governmental interference. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #209
I do the things you have listed, but for a different reason. I don't have much respect Nay Nov 2017 #8
Thank you for the excellent response. Tolerance in action.. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #27
This is exactly what was described in the post you took such great exception to Lordquinton Nov 2017 #187
I took exception to the assumption of motivation. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #192
And yet you still can't even provide one example of a different motivation. trotsky Nov 2017 #198
What's an alternative? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #205
Stiil pushing your totally unsupportable meme I see. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #210
He is not denying her intention was to spread the word marylandblue Nov 2017 #213
Any dialogue could unintentionally cause insult. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #214
Well it appears you are the one asking us to sit quietly on our rooms marylandblue Nov 2017 #216
Perhaps Cartoonist, and a few others, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #218
Perhaps you should recognize the role of assuming motives in social contexts marylandblue Nov 2017 #219
But assuming motives and then condemning based on those imagined assumptions guillaumeb Nov 2017 #220
No it's actually quite normal marylandblue Nov 2017 #222
And the woman of course had no idea that Cartoonist viewed guillaumeb Nov 2017 #224
If he gave no indication of it, then probably not marylandblue Nov 2017 #225
Some people are easy to read. Cartoonist Nov 2017 #221
True, some people are easy to read. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #223
You seem to me to have trouble understanding motivations of people on DU nt marylandblue Nov 2017 #226
That's what everyone has been saying her motives are Lordquinton Nov 2017 #215
Your first sentence sums up the issue nicely. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #217
Most of you sisters and brothers in humanity who affirm sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #150
Religious harassment Cartoonist Nov 2017 #12
Cartoonist, you sound very aggrieved. Care to share some of your more traumatic experiences? Nitram Nov 2017 #18
Your anger is evident. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #28
That is because you are blind to your privileged status. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #14
You are making a lot of assumptions there, Voltaire. Nitram Nov 2017 #19
Yeah well I guess weve had different experiences. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #37
No, I started as a semi-believer in spite of attending church for only one year of my life (at the Nitram Nov 2017 #48
I dismissed nothing. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #29
oh bullshit. Your op here is yet another case of you running away from the hole you dug yourself Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #40
Well done. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #43
Respect is earned. EvilAL Nov 2017 #21
Assuming facts and motivation not in evidence. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #30
JCOAPS this is not a law court. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #41
So any claims of motivation are accepted as fact? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #44
You seem not to understand the role of motive attribution in social communication marylandblue Nov 2017 #55
I understand framing, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #98
Framing is a completely different thing, so no marylandblue Nov 2017 #105
What is with your hang-up on motivation? Cartoonist Nov 2017 #85
The woman said she was a missionary. Mariana Nov 2017 #46
Words do have meaning M. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #47
That's pretty funny. EvilAL Nov 2017 #56
Your premise is faulty marylandblue Nov 2017 #53
And when I see such respectful discussion, I notice it and thank the responder. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author marylandblue Nov 2017 #107
My point is that, contrary to your OP, respect is not at all about attributing motives marylandblue Nov 2017 #109
So the facade of respect is your concern? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #111
No, my concern is the priority of action over feelings marylandblue Nov 2017 #112
So is the action of offering a pamphlet in itself disrespectful? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #113
yes and no Cartoonist Nov 2017 #114
So it was the venue, being in a place of business? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #117
definitely not Cartoonist Nov 2017 #118
I understand. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #120
Yes, the action is disrespectful marylandblue Nov 2017 #115
My primary issue was the expression by the poster that the lady intended to insult him. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #119
He did not say she had bad intent marylandblue Nov 2017 #144
He used the term "insult" when describing her actions. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #164
He said "felt insulted" marylandblue Nov 2017 #177
Cartoonist actually said: guillaumeb Nov 2017 #189
Still does not imply intent marylandblue Nov 2017 #193
Then feel free to explain exactly what you feel Cartoonist meant. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #197
I think it is pretty clear marylandblue Nov 2017 #206
Well explained. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #211
Doesn't have to be an actual work problem marylandblue Nov 2017 #212
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #92
Happy Days of Holly and Brandy Soaked Eggnoggins! sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #133
I am always willing to talk to them Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #134
You do know what 'sect' (I am being kind) I related this incident about. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #138
I am afraid I do not............... Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #139
They travel in pairs, males. With their white shirts, black slacks and black brief bags. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #149
I'm sure they understand you Mariana Nov 2017 #154
I'm insulted, I haven't seen one in years marylandblue Nov 2017 #160
We eventually put up 'no soliciting' signs adjacent to our sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #161
So are you defining this for everyone? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #125
If you read the post, you will see that there is no link to an article. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #128
That was a really complex way to say Lordquinton Nov 2017 #131
Exactly. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #165
Ok, it was an opinion piece Lordquinton Nov 2017 #183
If you can't assume motivation from action marylandblue Nov 2017 #146
I trynot to assume ill intent where none was intended..... you have to go with the flow sometimes. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #130
That's a charitable position to take. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #135
I aree, most people sharing a religious belief are well intended, such as in "God Bless You and Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #141
Interesting observation that being Catholic scares them off. I'll use that next time. Nitram Nov 2017 #142
I know it is weird. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #143
Some evangelicals do believe the Roman Catholic Church Mariana Nov 2017 #145
If that's how they react to catholics marylandblue Nov 2017 #147
I should try this the next time and see what reaction I get. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #156
Wow, I never knew. Gives me a certain power with this group. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #155
I wrote a post somewhere here why 'some' sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #152
A friend of mine is Greek Orthodox and gets the same reaction. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #157
We don't do 'till death do us part' and 'o, promise me.' sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #162
In this Greek Orthodox wedding it was the same kind of thing. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #170
Thank you for the appreciation. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #174
Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #148
These are the best parts of Catholicism in my book. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #158
I attended a Catholic highschool several years altho' I'm not RC. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #168
Yes I am not religious but I still pray to the various saints. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #171
I enjoy our exchange! 🎁 sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #175
Yes, I do too. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #181
A God Bless You or a Merry Christmas could be understandably sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #151
I have no idea what "being saved" really means. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #159
He took on the human nature/experience. Becoming like us, He sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #169
This makes sense, first time I heard a good explanation! Thanks! nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #172
I still receive revelation even after decades. There's much more sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #176
Same to you sprinkle Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #180
An excellent practice for us all. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #163
You're wise beyond your years rock Nov 2017 #178
Well I am definitely in the old category. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #195
I must remember this thread Lordquinton Nov 2017 #188
Can you cite examples of this defcom 5? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #196
It is one sided Lordquinton Nov 2017 #203
Like this? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #208
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