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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. Perhaps in your reading, you overlooked this part:
Tue Mar 3, 2020, 08:22 PM
Mar 2020
The database emphasizes that the Chinese government focused on religion as a reason for detention — not just political extremism, as authorities claim, but ordinary activities such as praying, attending a mosque, or even growing a long beard. It also shows the role of family: People with detained relatives are far more likely to end up in a camp themselves, uprooting and criminalizing entire families like Emer’s in the process.



And perhaps you also missed this:

It’s very clear that religious practice is being targeted,” said Darren Byler, a University of Colorado researcher studying the use of surveillance technology in Xinjiang. “They want to fragment society, to pull the families apart and make them much more vulnerable to retraining and reeducation.”


And perhaps you missed this, as well:

China has struggled for decades to control Xinjiang, where the native Uighurs have long resented Beijing’s heavy-handed rule. With the 9/11 attacks in the United States, officials began using the specter of terrorism to justify harsher religious restrictions, saying young Uighurs were susceptible to Islamic extremism.


And, perhaps you missed this, aswell:

Detainees and their families are tracked and classified by rigid, well-defined categories. Households are designated as “trustworthy” or “not trustworthy,” and their attitudes are graded as “ordinary” or “good.” Families have “light” or “heavy” religious atmospheres, and the database keeps count of how many relatives of each detainee are locked in prison or sent to a “training center.”


Possibly, you even missed this:

Reasons listed for internment include “minor religious infection,
” “disturbs other persons by visiting them without reasons,” “relatives abroad,” “thinking is hard to grasp” and “untrustworthy person born in a certain decade.” The last seems to refer to younger men; about 31 percent of people considered “untrustworthy” were in the age bracket of 25 to 29 years, according to an analysis of the data by Zenz.


And, perhaps you missed this as well:

That didn’t stop authorities from detaining the imam, who is in his eighties, and sentencing him on various charges for up to 12 years in prison over 2017 and 2018. The database cites four charges in various entries: “stirring up terrorism,” acting as an unauthorized “wild” imam, following the strict Saudi Wahhabi sect and conducting illegal religious teachings.


Perhaps, even this escaped your reasing:

None of Emer’s three sons had been convicted of a crime. But the database shows that over the course of 2017, all were thrown into the detention camps for having too many children, trying to travel abroad, being “untrustworthy” or “infected with religious extremism,”or going on the Hajj, the Muslim pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca. It also shows that their relation to Emer and their religious background was enough to convince officials they were too dangerous to let out from the detention camps.


I tried to be as thorough as possible, but it is truly difficult to avoid the obvious, that being a theist is sufficient reason to be put in a concentration camp in China.
The China solution Cartoonist Feb 2020 #1
The Chinese Government should show how tolerant the non-theists can be. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #2
I noticed you didn't weigh in on that thread Cartoonist Feb 2020 #3
Rellgion does nothing. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #4
Do people ever do anything good edhopper Mar 2020 #5
People do what they do for a variety of reasons. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #6
That doesn't answer if you think edhopper Mar 2020 #7
What I actually say is that people have a variety of reasons for their behavior. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #8
So why do you object when people cite edhopper Mar 2020 #9
Because "the religion" does not act. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #11
So why do you post here when someone edhopper Mar 2020 #15
So why are you ignoring the actual topic? guillaumeb Mar 2020 #25
is there any reason edhopper Mar 2020 #40
So you refuse to discuss the actual topic. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #42
Who said they weren't edhopper Mar 2020 #47
Point to a human society that is not intolerant to some degree. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #48
So you think intolerance is just human nature edhopper Mar 2020 #51
Intolerance seems to occur in every human society. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #53
Intolerance does indeed occur in every human society. trotsky Mar 2020 #55
In my view, tribalism requires, or leads to, intolerance. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #56
How can humans combat their nature? trotsky Mar 2020 #58
By undserstanding that our commonalities guillaumeb Mar 2020 #60
By not venerating teachings and texts that promote and perpetuate our differences, right? trotsky Mar 2020 #62
Based on your vast empirical research, I take it. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2020 #69
You are always free to suggest your own views. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #71
My own view is that my experiences are anecdotal and my "study" lacks rigor. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2020 #72
And what do these experts say on the subject? guillaumeb Mar 2020 #73
That "human nature" isn't knowable. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2020 #74
Notice how the discussion ends when the hard questions are asked Major Nikon Mar 2020 #38
So there is no crime for incitement? Cartoonist Mar 2020 #10
Not at all. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #12
Is incitement a law? Cartoonist Mar 2020 #13
I am not a lawyer. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #14
Do you honestly believe Christians view the bible as "simply words in a book"? trotsky Mar 2020 #19
I wrote: guillaumeb Mar 2020 #20
Do you think believers view their sacred texts as simply "words in a book"? trotsky Mar 2020 #26
Do you agree that only inciting someone to comit a crime edhopper Mar 2020 #16
Do you feel that the Chinese government is imprisoning people for the crime guillaumeb Mar 2020 #21
No. You are 100% wrong on this. trotsky Mar 2020 #27
Read the actual article. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #33
I did. A *cursory* reading says what you think it says. trotsky Mar 2020 #35
Perhaps in your reading, you overlooked this part: guillaumeb Mar 2020 #37
And YOU missed this part: trotsky Mar 2020 #39
OK guillaumeb Mar 2020 #41
Ah ah ah, you're forgetting something. trotsky Mar 2020 #43
A weak try at avoidance. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #44
And how exactly do they enforce that? trotsky Mar 2020 #45
If you have been reading the many articles about the Chinese Government surveillance state, guillaumeb Mar 2020 #46
Yes, I do know the answer. The answer is that you cannot know. trotsky Mar 2020 #49
Thank you for abandoning a weak line of attack. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #50
Let's get one thing fucking clear, bub: I didn't abandon it. You failed to make your point. trotsky Mar 2020 #52
To the victims of intolerance, guillaumeb Mar 2020 #54
To those of us working to understand intolerance, and confront it, it does matter. trotsky Mar 2020 #57
I never deny that people claim to be motivated by many things. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #59
No, here's the distinction you're missing. trotsky Mar 2020 #61
And does every theist interpret these verses identically? guillaumeb Mar 2020 #63
No of course not, no one ever said they did. trotsky Mar 2020 #64
So if every theist does not see these few verses as requiring, or promoting, intolerance, guillaumeb Mar 2020 #65
But not every theist sees other verses as promoting tolerance, either. trotsky Mar 2020 #66
So people can find reasons to justify their intolerance. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #67
But you don't get to decide that some people are doing their religion wrong. trotsky Mar 2020 #68
Again, you mischaracterize, or misunderstand, my actual position. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #70
That's exactly what you are doing. trotsky Mar 2020 #75
Your response misframes what I have said here. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #81
How? trotsky Mar 2020 #82
People can truly be motivated by their religion to be intolerant. trotsky Apr 2020 #83
People can truly be motivated by their religion to be intolerant. trotsky Mar 2020 #80
More from the actual article: trotsky Mar 2020 #36
"Some people cite a belief in a deity." trotsky Mar 2020 #18
Speak to the topic of this thread. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #22
When you stop diverting on other threats by "whatabouting" China, trotsky Mar 2020 #28
Be the change you wish to see. eom guillaumeb Mar 2020 #32
Why won't you, then? trotsky Mar 2020 #34
Despite your endless attempts to link the actions of the Chinese government to atheism... trotsky Mar 2020 #17
If you had read the article, guillaumeb Mar 2020 #23
I read the article. And the facts support me. trotsky Mar 2020 #29
From the article: trotsky Mar 2020 #30
Whataboutism 101. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #24
You are certainly an expert on whataboutism, I'll give you that. trotsky Mar 2020 #31
Of the 3 who responded here, 100% of them engaged in whataboutism. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #76
Ah, I see you're including yourself. trotsky Mar 2020 #77
I started the thread. guillaumeb Mar 2020 #78
That's your claim. trotsky Mar 2020 #79
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