Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

rrneck

(17,671 posts)
68. Well actually
Sat Dec 31, 2011, 02:06 PM
Dec 2011

nobody could know that. And your prognostication regarding the stars is also an understandable appeal to emotion. I don't think religion would have kept us from exploiting oil as an energy resource. But since we're just imagining here, as it stands now it's a fact that there is no replacement for oil and it's running out fast. Without that gap, we would have hit peak oil much sooner and at this point we would most likely be struggling to emerge from another dark age. And it would be a dark age caused by the exploitation of natural resources to drive technology, which depends on science. It could well be argued that the twentieth century was the most barbaric in human history. Those wars were fought for natural resources, as was almost every imperial conquest in history. Most of the time religion was just along for the ride as an excuse.

If purely rational thinking were the panacea that would lift the human race to the stars we would all be speaking Greek right now. If rational social organization and efficient government were the best solution for the vagaries of the human spirit I would be writing this in Latin. The devastation in the images above was not caused by religion. There was no religious crusade destroying rain forests, shipping tons of garbage to the third world, or burning children's faces. That devastation is caused by the need for natural resources to fuel science based technology. Religion is contributing to it because it uses technology. But religion didn't build all this shit, it just uses it just like everybody else believer and atheist alike. If atheists were as purely rational as we would like to think we are we'd be the biggest Luddites around.

It seems to me that both religion and science are working the same scam. Religion says, "Don't worry, heaven is your reward." and science says, "Don't worry, we'll get it figured out." All the while both of them are getting rich and anybody who isn't lucky enough to get with the program gets the shit kicked out of them.

I personally don't have a problem with religion or science. I think they are both vital to our survival as a species. It seems to me that the problem with religion begins when god gets property and the problem with science begins when ideas become property. When that happens people begin to identify more with their systems of thinking than with each other. And that's when the fighting begins because you have to dehumanize someone to brutalize them.

After the fall of the Roman empire religion did exactly what it was supposed to do. It reestablished relationships with people in proximity with each other. It was a difficult and ugly process and after a while god got property and everyone else got human barbeques. The twentieth century was a century of "isms". Capitalism, communism, and fascism fought it out across the entire planet, and in the end all we got out of it were more human barbeques.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I see your 1 and advance you a minus one. Total score: MarkCharles Dec 2011 #1
Good luck with this list. I asked for the same a few weeks ago, and got two things; Jack and Shit. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #2
What would a world without religion have looked like? rrneck Dec 2011 #3
How did we get rid of burning people at the stake? MarkCharles Dec 2011 #4
We didn't supress all the stuff you mentioned rrneck Dec 2011 #7
Probably like this Eliminator Dec 2011 #5
So rrneck Dec 2011 #8
Our collective outrage at The Last Airbender movie. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #9
Okay, that would do it. rrneck Dec 2011 #10
I think it would look almost the same as our world Taverner Dec 2011 #13
Michelangelo would STILL have been one of the greatest artists of all time. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #14
But we never would have known who he was Taverner Dec 2011 #32
Perhaps, but will never know for sure. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #50
Not necessarily. rrneck Dec 2011 #39
Right. Unfortunately, we wouldn't have heard of him Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #56
You cannot know that. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #64
Of course not, but most likely he would have been unknown Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #66
You should see this... cleanhippie Dec 2011 #15
I'm familiar with it. rrneck Dec 2011 #21
Where would women have fit in? deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #23
Where would women have fit in? rrneck Dec 2011 #46
Your second paragraph would be more compelling if human pair bonding was always Leontius Dec 2011 #53
Well it is just a message board post. rrneck Dec 2011 #58
After reading this post and a more careful rereading of the other post Leontius Dec 2011 #60
No worries. Good talking to you. rrneck Dec 2011 #61
Sure, and then moved past it. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #51
"Moved past" might not be the right phrase. rrneck Dec 2011 #54
Your appeals to emotion, while powerful, prove nothing. cleanhippie Dec 2011 #65
Well actually rrneck Dec 2011 #68
Deus ex Machina! tama Dec 2011 #69
Well said. Right on the money. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #57
Thanks. rrneck Dec 2011 #59
Nice tama Dec 2011 #43
No need to mention Leontius Dec 2011 #67
like this... deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #18
Meditation and other religious, mind-altering practices. nt ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #6
I disagree (with that post, not the other one, screw M. Night!) deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #12
Meditation was invented by Hindus for religious purposes. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #47
how strange... deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #11
how strange.... cbayer Dec 2011 #16
you'll forgive me (I think you have to) deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #17
You make the mistake of conflating those that have used religion cbayer Dec 2011 #19
used religion to liberate and embrace? deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #20
So often believers can't grasp a simple concept "you don't need religion to do it, you never didyo" MarkCharles Dec 2011 #22
That's because, as you have so often pointed out, believers are really intellectually cbayer Dec 2011 #24
speaking of which deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #26
The American Civil Rights Movement for African Americans cbayer Dec 2011 #28
am I to understand that was brought to us by religion? n/t deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #29
Are you going to deny the role that religion and religious institutions played cbayer Dec 2011 #30
I didn't elaborate very well deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #36
And a lovely new year to you as well. cbayer Dec 2011 #38
Are you going to deny the role that socialists and communists institutions played mr blur Dec 2011 #62
Absolutely not. There were many parties involved. cbayer Dec 2011 #63
Agreed. That's one. Eliminator Dec 2011 #33
I agree. cbayer Dec 2011 #35
Silly me I thought the major impetus of the african slave trade was money and power . Leontius Dec 2011 #55
All people are equal, that's a simple concept, too! MarkCharles Dec 2011 #31
Do those simple people fall into any groups? Because, unless I read this cbayer Dec 2011 #34
"The only people who I can imagine would be offended by a nativity scene that included gay.......... MarkCharles Dec 2011 #40
Exactly right. Homophobic bigots. cbayer Dec 2011 #41
Evidently the idea of belief in Christ or a god had no effect MarkCharles Dec 2011 #48
Is any of this getting through?? Did you really just say that? cbayer Dec 2011 #49
Of course, anyone could (and should) work for social justice. cbayer Dec 2011 #25
I accept your apology deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #27
Anyone could oppress, murder and enslave certain groups, you don't need religion to do it, Leontius Dec 2011 #37
Because I'm staying on topic deacon_sephiroth Dec 2011 #42
In the former thread tama Dec 2011 #44
There might have been confusion about the modern meaning of those terms as MarkCharles Dec 2011 #45
I explained tama Dec 2011 #52
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»List of religion's tangib...»Reply #68