Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Religion

In reply to the discussion: Why is there evil and suffering? [View all]

patrice

(47,992 posts)
82. True, because changing your narrative/perspective does not necessarily change the nature of the
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 01:56 PM
Oct 2012

thing. It only changes perspective, which may or may not make perspective more valid and reliable. The thing, whatever it is, is whatever it is, no matter how one looks at it, whatever, more or less valid, angle. Additionally, some angles/narratives are more obtuse than others (and still other narratives are extrapolations from those skewed perspectives), so, especially if you're factoring out all of the other angles (or, at best, those which don't fit with the one that has been chosen), the narrative might as well be a fiction, for all of the relevance that perspective might have to any validity.

All of that is okay for rationalism, because rationalism does that within the context of its own epistemology and never claimed anything else and it identifies itself by what it does/its own processes, so what is included and what is excluded IS the point.

None of that is okay for religion, because religion says that it isn't doing that. Religion says it is doing the opposite of that, i.e. identifying absolute truths ir-respective of anything like perspective or context and yet each religion claims its own perspective/narrative as the ultimate truth. One of the main reasons that religion clings to what are very likely errors has more to do with organ -ization (i.e. a specific functional construct) than it has to do with what may or may not be truth.

Why is there evil and suffering? [View all] Thats my opinion Oct 2012 OP
Love the phrase mr_hat Oct 2012 #1
agreed. life sucks because we have free will. it can bebetter if we roguevalley Oct 2012 #17
God is what we invoke at the limits of our knowledge... DreamGypsy Oct 2012 #2
Because god is quite the bastard. mysuzuki2 Oct 2012 #3
Hmmm. Fix The Stupid Oct 2012 #4
I like this very much! Look at the universe; how can ANY words encompass that event? It IS its own patrice Oct 2012 #5
In th past GOD filled in the empty places in knowledge of the universe... Agnosticsherbet Oct 2012 #6
Today's theology does not deny science, but celebrates it. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #7
It's not that the mind is closed Oregonian Oct 2012 #9
In any of the DU forums or groups, Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #20
Were you to produce rrneck Oct 2012 #24
The problem he has Oregonian Oct 2012 #33
Reads like new age word salad to me. rrneck Oct 2012 #38
"the "insights" you speak of spark squarely from the anus of the "theologians"" cleanhippie Oct 2012 #27
There was far more snark in your post Oregonian Oct 2012 #32
We can see the emperor has no clothes. trotsky Oct 2012 #60
Best. Post. Ever. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #30
Thanks, brother! n/t Oregonian Oct 2012 #31
ThatsMyOpinion usually pokes his head out and posts something like this every week or so. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #34
I have posted there some Oregonian Oct 2012 #35
You wanna see dead? Have a look at the Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith group. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #36
Ha ha, well played Oregonian Oct 2012 #37
Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #46
As usual your post... rexcat Oct 2012 #55
Chalk one up for you kitten! Starboard Tack Oct 2012 #56
It will take a lot more... rexcat Oct 2012 #57
Precious, you need to learn the difference between blocking and ignoring. Starboard Tack Oct 2012 #58
I would consider "precious" as a derogatory remark... rexcat Oct 2012 #59
I celebrate what you have done with your life. nt Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #63
I am not looking for accolades... rexcat Oct 2012 #65
Do you celebrate the fact that he did those things sans religion? cleanhippie Oct 2012 #90
He doesn't give a shit, rexcat. His passive-aggressiveness is like the stripe on a skunks back. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #73
Agreed... rexcat Oct 2012 #74
And a jury felt the same way, as his post got hidden above. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #89
I can say I did not alert that one... rexcat Oct 2012 #96
This post was alerted on. The jury voted 5/1 to let it stand. ohiosmith Oct 2012 #80
Thanks, looks like a jury agreed that his passive-aggressive posts are not worthy of DU. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #86
Einstein had insights ... GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #44
Einstein had insights ... AlbertCat Oct 2012 #47
Yes, it really is that the mind is closed. humblebum Oct 2012 #70
Thank you. whathehell Oct 2012 #129
Sheesh, could you possibly be any more arrogant and self-centered? skepticscott Oct 2012 #15
Yes, he could be a radical atheist. nt humblebum Oct 2012 #71
Which theology? Baptist Theology? Dominionist Theology? Agnosticsherbet Oct 2012 #134
The narrative myths that fit things together were the function of the pluraltheistic religions, with patrice Oct 2012 #131
So.....atheism? Oregonian Oct 2012 #8
"Modern theology is rapidly getting rid of this sky wizard notion of God" trotsky Oct 2012 #10
He just admitted he is an atheist. rrneck Oct 2012 #25
True, because changing your narrative/perspective does not necessarily change the nature of the patrice Oct 2012 #82
Yep. rrneck Oct 2012 #88
I think you guys are on to something here. TMO is essentially "coming out" cleanhippie Oct 2012 #91
Well said. Very well said! patrice Oct 2012 #92
That has got to be one of the silliest statements ever Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2012 #28
You are wrong. trotsky Oct 2012 #40
I think you have misread his statement. Please read it again. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #42
You're right, I misread it. My apologies Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2012 #103
I don't disagree. rrneck Oct 2012 #11
Of course. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #21
Theology isn't changing anything but the narrative. rrneck Oct 2012 #22
God is best understood as a verb, not a noun. What's the past tense? n/t dimbear Oct 2012 #12
Gad! skepticscott Oct 2012 #14
I like it. dimbear Oct 2012 #16
Theologians don't have "insights" skepticscott Oct 2012 #13
Nail on the head. n/t trotsky Oct 2012 #18
Thus speaks someone who does not understand theology Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2012 #29
Post removed Post removed Oct 2012 #39
Is there an argument in there anywhere? skepticscott Oct 2012 #51
Science doesn't give us all the understanding we have QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #53
The fact that science can't answer ALL questions skepticscott Oct 2012 #62
I doubt your skepticism QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #66
As mentioned, Christian theology has had skepticscott Oct 2012 #68
Shows you how to be a righteous dude, among other things? QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #69
Well, I was expecting someone to say something intelligent skepticscott Oct 2012 #94
You do know that science and ethics are different disciplines, right? QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #97
The entire point is skepticscott Oct 2012 #98
Atheism is not a conclusion, it is a preference QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #102
Atheism reflects a preference skepticscott Oct 2012 #106
Atheism is the rejection of theism. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #138
Sam Harris makes an excellent case in The Moral Landscape that counters you. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #137
Matthew 7:6 Leontius Oct 2012 #19
The question often arises as to where one can find the seat of this theology,. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #64
Do those all deny the resurrection, then? muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #75
The resurrection is still very important. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #79
The story they were committed to was the resurrection muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #84
Just slap a capital M on Mystery and call it done. n/t trotsky Oct 2012 #85
I think we need a capital Y at the end too skepticscott Oct 2012 #99
You raised a couple of very good issues. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #110
Was Paul even there?? Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #112
No, Paul never met or saw Jesus. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #114
Doing what exactly? Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #23
I didn't know you were an atheist. rrneck Oct 2012 #26
Word salad. No thanks, I've eaten. mr blur Oct 2012 #41
I would love to have an intelligent conversation about religion. Can you kindly explain what the prefunk Oct 2012 #43
Put aside your prejudices, and try reading the original post nt Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #49
Try not being so condescending, please. I did read the OP, and found it ambiguous. prefunk Oct 2012 #93
That like asking the pope skepticscott Oct 2012 #100
Perhaps these are not new insights, but the recapulation of what we have known for a long time. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #109
So if there are NOT any "amazing new insights", just what is it you are talking about? prefunk Oct 2012 #119
It is a religion skepticscott Oct 2012 #121
All religions only point. None of them encapsulate the truth, the whole truth, Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #122
So what does that have to do with organized religion and it's charachters? prefunk Oct 2012 #123
They are all efforts to point to that which is beyond all of them. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #124
So lets go back to these new insights. prefunk Oct 2012 #125
Hello? Still there? prefunk Oct 2012 #139
Anyone home? prefunk Oct 2012 #140
"Not new insights"? skepticscott Oct 2012 #120
Is it safe to assume that you will not be answering my call for clarification? prefunk Oct 2012 #107
As predicted skepticscott Oct 2012 #108
See 109--and please be more specific about your question and I'll try to respond. nt Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #113
Nature ... GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #45
Perhaps the best metaphor for the earth is "Mother." An acient use. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #81
Why is there evil and suffering? AlbertCat Oct 2012 #48
What if thinking the world is "evil" creates more "evil"? QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #50
Fear and Greed thelordofhell Oct 2012 #52
A partial answer okasha Oct 2012 #54
If a god exists... trotsky Oct 2012 #61
Just one? That's easy QuantumOfPeace Oct 2012 #67
Um, please read the question again. trotsky Oct 2012 #72
Science is a superior means of obtaining knowledge okasha Oct 2012 #76
So you don't have an example. trotsky Oct 2012 #83
Were you expecting otherwise skepticscott Oct 2012 #87
Of course not. trotsky Oct 2012 #95
Just letting you have the low road to yourself, trots. okasha Oct 2012 #104
There you go. trotsky Oct 2012 #105
I'm not certain whether evil insists independently or whether it's the absence of good. no_hypocrisy Oct 2012 #77
Something like an energy field created by all living things? muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #78
I'm sure TMO and his gang skepticscott Oct 2012 #101
From your post you are saying that most religions are bunk Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #111
No, please read 109 nt Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #115
I now have read post #109 Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #116
I dislike the term "pagan." It has a pejortive ring. Thats my opinion Oct 2012 #117
Christian religions used that term and heathens for many years Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #118
Ego orpupilofnature57 Oct 2012 #126
There isn't evil, and suffering is an emotion brought on by ego TransitJohn Oct 2012 #127
How about this theory... Speck Tater Oct 2012 #128
You made me think of monads, patrice Oct 2012 #132
That second link is very interesting Speck Tater Oct 2012 #135
I really only have a Philosophy 101 acquaintence with Leibniz, but his was one of the thoughts patrice Oct 2012 #136
Maybe someday, someone will bring something new to a discussion about religion, but I doubt it. rogrot Oct 2012 #130
The preacher in Ecclesiastes had it right: there's nothing new under the sun. dimbear Oct 2012 #133
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Why is there evil and suf...»Reply #82