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Religion

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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:49 PM May 2013

Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption [View all]

Atheists like me are used to religious leaders like the last pope telling us that we are going to Hell to be tortured for all eternity because we are skeptical of their pretty hard to believe claims. This new pope surprised everyone the other day by proclaiming that atheists are not condemned to eternal torture if we live a virtuous life. Thanks for that, Pope Francis, but I wasn't worried. I'm reasonably sure that Hell is imaginary.

The thing is that Pope Francis went farther than just acknowledging that atheists aren't going to be tortured for all eternity. He also said that if we live virtuous lives, we will be "redeemed" by Jesus just like Christians. I think that last part goes a little too far for me. I know the pope meant well and probably didn't realize just how condescending that actually sounds to many atheists. In an effort to help the pope better communicate with the growing atheist community and in the spirit of furthering dialog, I'm going to explain why I take issue with his statement.

I'm not interested in being "redeemed" by Jesus. Contrary to the Catholic and even the broader Christian belief, I don't believe humans are evil sinners in need of redemption. I don't see the glass as half empty. The way I see it, the glass is full. Half the glass is filled with water and the other half filled with air. In other words, I don't think people are inherently evil; I think people are more nuanced than that. We do good things and we do bad things.

As a humanist, I have come to understand that people generally try to be the best they can. We are all trying to be the heroes in our own story, sometimes getting sidetracked along the way.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-rosch/dear-pope-atheists-dont-need-redemption_b_3332013.html?utm_hp_ref=religion
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I don't think he was lecturing the atheists when he said that .... MADem May 2013 #1
I agree but I don't think others in the Vatican liked it. hrmjustin May 2013 #2
Well he's the head Mitre-chapeau in charge, so they're just gonna have to dig on it! MADem May 2013 #4
JP the first dies the day I was born. He died about the time I was born. hrmjustin May 2013 #5
Time for a bit of reincarnation woo, if you believe that sort of thing! nt MADem May 2013 #6
That is what my friends at church say. hrmjustin May 2013 #7
what do they say? DesertFlower May 2013 #8
That I am John Paul the first reincarnated. hrmjustin May 2013 #9
Damn shame George and Ringo isn't in there with ya. Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #11
Now that would be a great personality! hrmjustin May 2013 #12
I share a birthday with Adolphs death day. SCVDem May 2013 #19
do you think you are? DesertFlower May 2013 #24
No I don't, but it is interesting that I was born almost at the moment he died. hrmjustin May 2013 #25
i believe in reincarnation. i didn't think DesertFlower May 2013 #26
They said it in jest and I am Episcopalian. hrmjustin May 2013 #27
i think it was in the 1400s. i'm a former DesertFlower May 2013 #28
I think they got rid of limbo! As to reincarnation it could have been the cathars! hrmjustin May 2013 #29
they changed so many rules. i remember it was a mortal sin DesertFlower May 2013 #36
The Church must speak to every generation. Unfortunately many churvhes have issues doing hrmjustin May 2013 #45
In my mind there's a big difference between Laws of the church and God's laws No Vested Interest May 2013 #61
lol. a little off the subject but another DesertFlower May 2013 #64
I see a strong parallel between Pope Francis and President Obama BlueStreak May 2013 #30
In my opinion believers and non-believers go to the same place when we die. hrmjustin May 2013 #31
Therein lies the problem when we create gods in our own image BlueStreak May 2013 #33
Well we will find out sooner or later. hrmjustin May 2013 #34
Well actually, we won't. And that's how religions are able to keep their con going. BlueStreak May 2013 #35
if that is true then undoubtedly we northern europeans still go to ragnarok or the like. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #50
Yeah but I like a heaven with an open bar better. hrmjustin May 2013 #51
that'd be valhalla, then. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #53
My idea of heaven is a big bruch with neverending booze and food. hrmjustin May 2013 #54
that's valhalla. it just is. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #56
Looks fun. Ok valhala it is! hrmjustin May 2013 #57
the norse religion's idea of the 'end of the world' was better too.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #58
So you can live as you want without having to worry about the rules. hrmjustin May 2013 #59
i dont know about *that*.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #63
Whether Rosch does or does not is immaterial, as long as he understands what the Pope is saying. rug May 2013 #3
Ummm, that "uninformed statement"... gcomeau May 2013 #38
Then it should be a small matter to cite the chapter and verse. rug May 2013 #41
Romans 3: 9-20 gcomeau May 2013 #42
I did. Here's your opportunity to read the whole thing. rug May 2013 #43
Read it. Many times. gcomeau May 2013 #46
yeh but it's all how you *interpret* .. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #55
Meh Tien1985 May 2013 #10
Something too obviuos coldbeer May 2013 #13
Are you saying the classic monks bent over scribing away were the first nerds? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #14
Why do people think that male nerds and geeks are gay? coldbeer May 2013 #40
"So...what's with this stereotype?" Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #44
Religion and Science are Both Ways.... Billsmile May 2013 #15
No, sorry...they are not skepticscott May 2013 #20
Not even close. gcomeau May 2013 #39
Click-bait fake controvery. Author deliberately took the Pope out of context to draw views. TekGryphon May 2013 #16
I don't want to go to heaven, even if it existed. I didn't hang with the "saints" in life, I'll alfredo May 2013 #17
Pope Frankie is not shaking up the RC world RVN VET May 2013 #18
I donno why people always try to make it more then what it is. Lobo27 May 2013 #21
We know what he thinks of atheists. What does he think of the child rapists and their enablers stopbush May 2013 #22
Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption... BillyRibs May 2013 #23
Amen....;) nt Purplehazed May 2013 #32
I doubt Pope Francis spends much time reading HuffPo, so if Rosch wants to tell him something struggle4progress May 2013 #37
I doubt atheists spend much time listening to the Pope's sermons, so... Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #47
I doubt the Pope was expecting atheists to listen to his talk: he seems to have addressed struggle4progress May 2013 #48
Nonsense Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #60
... The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily struggle4progress May 2013 #62
I don't need to be redeemed... uriel1972 May 2013 #49
This must be part of being a good beard for the Ratz. Walk away May 2013 #52
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