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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
10. No, I'm not "sure", LOL. However, I have yet to see a mathematically consistent, coherent
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:43 AM
Aug 2015

"Theory" of space-time which posits anything like a "center" which is located somewhere within, again, our 4 dimensional spacetime itself.

Now, extrapolating the old "flatland sphere" idea, if spacetime were curved - and closed- in such a way that the universe was a sphere in a higher mathematical dimension, then yes there would be a "center" which nevertheless existed in a higher mathematical dimension outside of our spacetime, much as the core of the earth is nowhere on its surface--

But that said, observational analyses to date have all indicated that spacetime is neither curved in on itself (spherical) NOR outward (saddle-shaped) but rather, "flat" at largest scales, albeit again in 4 dimensions.

Also if one steps outside of "time" (as much as is mentally possible) and accepts current big bang/hyperinflation theory, it is possible I suppose to argue that a "center" (if not "the" center) sits at the big bang, both in space and time- but the big bang occurred everywhere, so again, if you're talking now the center is, like the leftover 3 degree echo of the big bang, everywhere.



Positing a "center" somewhere in our own, current spacetime as it stands now, runs into all sorts of logical problems, not the least of which is that it implies an "edge" or boundary, and then what's beyond that?

(one of the appealing factors of the spacetime-curved-into-a-higher-dimension-sphere idea is, of course, that it avoids that problem by saying if you go far enough in one direction, you end up coming back from the other way, sort of like flying off the right side of the screen in Asteroids and coming back in in the left.



But unfortunately, again, observations don't seem to indicate that one is true)

Personally, my own leanings are towards something like the infinite self-propagating eternal inflationary theory of Guth and Linde (of which our own Universe would be a tiny bubble), and I believe everything is mind-bendingly infinite in all directions and across all scales, not just multiverses but an infinite number of multiverses and beyond that types of multiverses, and so on. And as mathematicians know, asking what the "center" of infinity (much less infinite infinities) is, is a meaningless question.


...also, adding a brief detour out of science and math and into philosophy- as the solipsism jokes upthread allude to, from a purely experiential/zen/existential standpoint for me, the universe DOES have a center, and yes, I'm sitting at it right now. Meaning, as much as my own experience is concerned, from the moment I first became conscious, everything that has ever taken place, from my perspective, has happened with me smack dab at the center. Wow! I must be important! Or something. I don't say this because I have a huge ego (although I do) but rather because If I'm being rigorous from an experiential viewpoint, well, the ONLY experiential viewpoint I have or will ever have, as far as I know, is mine. The only vote that matters, so to speak.

And as such the whole fuckin' shebang revolves around (or to some extent, takes place inside) my own head. So as for a "center", there's that, I guess.

Quick correction, the Universe doesn't have a "center", per se. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #1
are you sure? SoLeftIAmRight Aug 2015 #9
No, I'm not "sure", LOL. However, I have yet to see a mathematically consistent, coherent Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #10
If you accept the big bang essentially originated as a point singularity hootinholler Aug 2015 #11
The "location" was everywhere, because that point singularity expanded into all the spacetime we see Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #14
Well hootinholler Aug 2015 #16
But again, and I know it's hard to grok- at least for me- Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #17
The old is the universe bounded question hootinholler Aug 2015 #18
Donald Trump. tclambert Aug 2015 #13
Verily, it is the danger of taking your own shit too seriously. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #15
Too funny PJMcK Aug 2015 #27
Good explaination ... jimlup Aug 2015 #24
how neat! I'm jealous. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #30
Yeah sure thats all good and well, but what does the turtle stand on? Exultant Democracy Aug 2015 #32
The bottom turtle? Any relation to the bottom quark? 4dog Aug 2015 #38
Greetings. xocet Aug 2015 #40
If one were to talk about a point in space (ie a center point) SoLeftIAmRight Aug 2015 #41
Well...here are some thoughts...my main question is underlined... xocet Aug 2015 #42
Many thanks for the link... Wounded Bear Aug 2015 #2
Very informative video! Lionel Mandrake Aug 2015 #3
except you are at the center qazplm Aug 2015 #6
Right. I'm at the center. Lionel Mandrake Aug 2015 #7
I've known people who believe the world revolves around them.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #19
Suddenly I feel a headache coming on. nt cstanleytech Aug 2015 #8
Thanks for the video. gvstn Aug 2015 #4
Excellent. Thanks, Peggy. nt Duppers Aug 2015 #5
I have become so fed up with the mainstream media JayhawkSD Aug 2015 #12
Flip over to Hee Haw...... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #20
LOL. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #39
Does put that vast perspective on our planet's problems, no? nightscanner59 Aug 2015 #21
That was fascinating Peggy. passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #22
Best video ever! Peace Patriot Aug 2015 #23
Beautiful. Thank you. oldandhappy Aug 2015 #25
Could I buy some pot from you? tularetom Aug 2015 #26
As far as anybody knows, there is no center. longship Aug 2015 #28
Agreed. However, the title being idiotic does not diminish how good the video is. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2015 #29
Where does the misleading title for this OP come from? xocet Aug 2015 #43
Thanks for posting that. SheilaT Aug 2015 #31
i have seen that ! Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #33
Is it made out of chocolate? shenmue Aug 2015 #34
Oh, I wish! CaliforniaPeggy Aug 2015 #35
Thanks for the cool link, Peggy! nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #36
Too cool! marym625 Aug 2015 #37
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