Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

daaron

(763 posts)
17. Self-identification suffers from lack of verifiability.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 09:23 AM
Jun 2012

Making the study of ideas a particularly tricky corner of social psych. There be where poli-sci majors in tailored shirts dwell.

The article itself is inoffensive in that it merely attempts to delineate some of the self-identification making the rounds with non-believers of various stripes. I think the attempt to coin 'positive' and 'negative' atheism was over-zealous labeling, however. Atheists self-identify as 'strong' and 'weak' atheists, not in polar, dualistic terms like + VS -. If one is allowing self-identification to comprise an underlying model for classification, as the author attempts to do, one ought to grant the same allowance to each self-identified group. I for one have never heard atheists debate positive or negative atheism. Atheism VS anti-theism, yes. Strong VS weak approaches to public expression of atheism, yes. Atheism VS agnosticism as a false dichotomy, yes. But positive VS negative? Nope.

That said, there is a subtle point in there. The author notes I think correctly that some atheists make the positive assertion that there are no gods, while other atheists make no assertion, but eschew belief, altogether, along with anything that requires an underlying belief (the Tinkerbell Effect, if you will). The latter's not a negative assertion. Here, "positive" means "there exists an assertion". It's a verbal flourish, not a description of the state of a logical proposition - at least, not if we're talking about the usual Boolean logic. So it's a mistake to extend this flourish to the proposition which it decorates; it turns the resulting +/- model into an erroneous mess. 'Strong' and 'weak' are more descriptive, and already in wide use. I suggest we stick with them. If 'weak' is offensive to some atheists, they should say so. Perhaps 'Positive' and 'Neutral', but 'Negative'? No way.

ETA: Proudly a 'weak atheist' since about a week ago.

No Religion? 7 Types of Non-Believers [View all] Rhiannon12866 Jun 2012 OP
I'm most of those things OriginalGeek Jun 2012 #1
I wish I could Like this, it gave me the smile I so greatly needed today.nt amyrose2712 Jun 2012 #10
The software may not count it OriginalGeek Jun 2012 #12
Needless subdivision that is either false or irrelevant dmallind Jun 2012 #2
+1 laconicsax Jun 2012 #3
You know that. I know that... BiggJawn Jun 2012 #4
Yep. Crap article. PassingFair Jun 2012 #8
Well, I never go there. Rhiannon12866 Jun 2012 #14
I didn't think you had "motives"! PassingFair Jun 2012 #15
Well, you could say the same thing about Christians to ShadowLiberal Jun 2012 #16
True, but few people think Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists etc are not all Christians dmallind Jun 2012 #26
The need to minimize people into neat, divided catagories lindysalsagal Jun 2012 #5
Well, I thought it was pretty interesting, since I've never examined the nature of my beliefs Rhiannon12866 Jun 2012 #6
This article is just silly. For instance, Unitarians run the gamut of beliefs. PassingFair Jun 2012 #9
Insulting or disturbing? Not really. dmallind Jun 2012 #11
A little bit of all... I guess mostly weenie-agnostic-humanist-skeptic. wyldwolf Jun 2012 #7
I’m an atheist. I have frogmarch Jun 2012 #13
God is imaginary. lindysalsagal Jun 2012 #21
Self-identification suffers from lack of verifiability. daaron Jun 2012 #17
Welcome to awake. lindysalsagal Jun 2012 #20
Minor point: laconicsax Jun 2012 #22
Hm. My understanding was --> daaron Jun 2012 #23
That wedge has been tried already. laconicsax Jun 2012 #25
but strong and weak atheism are broader definitions IMO dmallind Jun 2012 #24
All of those religions listed are atheistic too... urgk Jun 2012 #18
I understand the appeal of this thinking, echoed in the article, but I disagree with it dmallind Jun 2012 #19
Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»Atheists & Agnostics»No Religion? 7 Types of N...»Reply #17