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enid602

(8,524 posts)
45. debt
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 09:18 AM
Jan 2016

Don't forget, we currently have a debt to GDP ratio of 65%, an all time high save that at the end of the Great Depression and WWII, when it was also 65%. That same ratio was only 11% percent at the beginning of FDR's first administration. IE, we had the money for his programs. We don't have that luxury right now. And it's not like Berniecare is the ONLY big program that Berrnie's promising right now. We're broke!

There's nothing fantastic about a program that every other developed nation has Proserpina Jan 2016 #1
Single Payer could work here, but not the way Bernie has proposed. DanTex Jan 2016 #5
Krugman is a Clinton shill. mhatrw Jan 2016 #121
Umm, OK then. I consider him probably best liberal economist out there, but under the bus he goes! DanTex Jan 2016 #124
^^^this^^^ and it's not a fantasy in 29 other countries! ViseGrip Jan 2016 #176
Worse coverage? Only those with so called Cadillac plans will have "worse" coverage randys1 Jan 2016 #180
Well, if Medicare is the standard he's aiming at, then, yes, there are DanTex Jan 2016 #190
We can't have it b/c the health insurance corporations have the corrupt politicians in their pockets Skwmom Jan 2016 #14
We can't have it because politicians like Sanders aren't serious about working out how to get there. baldguy Jan 2016 #32
Clinton is serious that she won't do anything except give us more of the same mhatrw Jan 2016 #123
If it's too difficult for her than she's obviously not up to the job. n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #172
Clinton is serious about her positions because of... Champion Jack Jan 2016 #237
Therein lies the biggest problem with BS's plan Gman Jan 2016 #56
Why can't the USA do what EVERY other first world country can do? nt mhatrw Jan 2016 #125
There's a whole lot more to be done beyond Gman Jan 2016 #145
But we have to start by electing officials that are MOTIVATED to pursue change... cascadiance Jan 2016 #227
Because people like you are not willing to acknowledge the complexity involved anigbrowl Jan 2016 #179
It won't sell itself. It will take LEADERSHIP to sell it. The first step is having the guts to mhatrw Jan 2016 #218
And when it doesn't happen Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2016 #166
Yup. They proudly proclaimed they were going to teach the party a lesson Gman Jan 2016 #170
You can thank Rahm Emanuel's DCCC for that BS, whose candidates they pushed... cascadiance Jan 2016 #228
Wow. That's incredible Gman Jan 2016 #252
^ I recommend this post. nt anigbrowl Jan 2016 #181
I couldn't agree more. Andy823 Jan 2016 #186
^^^^this right here^^^^ nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #72
Bingo! TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #98
nothing fantastic . . . enid602 Jan 2016 #38
The US does not have universal health care under the ACA Kall Jan 2016 #50
Universal Healthcare enid602 Jan 2016 #55
Germany doesn't have universal health care, either DFW Jan 2016 #79
The Swiss system is like BlueMTexpat Jan 2016 #102
Sounds a little simpler than Germany DFW Jan 2016 #114
It's actually quite reasonable, all things considered! BlueMTexpat Jan 2016 #167
ACA - Very Complicated. gordyfl Jan 2016 #115
"My goal is noble, therefore I don't need a plan." anigbrowl Jan 2016 #184
It has no chance of being adopted in the real world Gothmog Jan 2016 #40
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem... Human101948 Jan 2016 #52
I like living in the real world where electablity and viability are issues Gothmog Jan 2016 #152
If you promise voters more of the same... Human101948 Jan 2016 #154
Here’s One Big Problem With The Bernie Sanders Plan For Health Care Utopia Gothmog Jan 2016 #226
Yeah, I agree with that writer... Human101948 Jan 2016 #233
Rhetoric is a poor substitute for policy anigbrowl Jan 2016 #185
If you set your sights low that's where you will end up... Human101948 Jan 2016 #187
Enjoy your catchphrases anigbrowl Jan 2016 #192
As a great philospher once said: Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth! Human101948 Jan 2016 #196
And a predictable switch to intimidation and bully talk anigbrowl Jan 2016 #200
Calm down...what I am saying is that you may be surprised at what develops Human101948 Jan 2016 #203
Next, an attempt to assert authority over the terms of the discourse anigbrowl Jan 2016 #207
What plans are those? Human101948 Jan 2016 #209
Was going to point out the same thing. zeemike Jan 2016 #99
Once again, mixing up the goal and the implementation anigbrowl Jan 2016 #175
And Hillary supporters are now the NO WE CAN'T wing of the party. ViseGrip Jan 2016 #178
Just because you are content to live in a second rate shithole of a country don't tell the rest of CBGLuthier Jan 2016 #2
We can do it, just not with Bernie's numbers. DanTex Jan 2016 #6
So, we can improve Obama care, safeinOhio Jan 2016 #12
The thing is, this particular SP plan would not be a start at all. DanTex Jan 2016 #16
According to many safeinOhio Jan 2016 #21
According to who? DanTex Jan 2016 #23
The same Krugman that wants safeinOhio Jan 2016 #28
Actually Krugman doesn't place too much emphasis on breaking up big banks, DanTex Jan 2016 #33
It this thread about banks or health care? baldguy Jan 2016 #34
Sorry, I thought it was about Krugman. safeinOhio Jan 2016 #36
military enid602 Jan 2016 #43
So why are WE pissing so much money away on military spending? Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #46
military enid602 Jan 2016 #48
Um, Bernie IS suggesting a shift away from bloated mlitary spending Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #66
military enid602 Jan 2016 #68
Not good enough, Bernie!, says the warhawk supporter. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #206
At least part of why is because Europe doesn't mythology Jan 2016 #220
Developed countries other than the U.S. spend half of what we do with better results... Human101948 Jan 2016 #53
And they pay more in taxes. DanTex Jan 2016 #58
How can half be more? Human101948 Jan 2016 #62
Look up the tax rates. They pay more. Sweden, for example, which that article brings up. DanTex Jan 2016 #69
Trying to point out that healthcare costs are not the source of high taxes... Human101948 Jan 2016 #74
Healthcare is part of the source of the high taxes. But it's true, if all Bernie wanted to DanTex Jan 2016 #78
You mean the Wall Street Journal people? Human101948 Jan 2016 #83
Absolutely correct TubbersUK Jan 2016 #251
He's not proposing Swedish level taxes because he's not... tex-wyo-dem Jan 2016 #139
What? coyote Jan 2016 #85
Taxes have a lot to do with healthcare in countries with single payer. DanTex Jan 2016 #87
Please stop pretending single payer would make healthcare more expensive. Kentonio Jan 2016 #163
I'm not pretending that at all. You should stop pretending it wouldn't require a big tax increase, DanTex Jan 2016 #173
No-one said they did. Again you're just trying to make the case for Hillary's Obamacare Plus plan. Kentonio Jan 2016 #191
Which economists think Bernie's plan is great? DanTex Jan 2016 #193
Robert Reich for starters. Kentonio Jan 2016 #195
Umm, Bernie's plan wasn't released until Sunday, that article was posted Saturday. DanTex Jan 2016 #197
Reich saw the plan before it was released. Kentonio Jan 2016 #198
Interesting. Not sure vouching for this plan is going to do much for Reich's credibility going DanTex Jan 2016 #199
Or perhaps he believes its a good plan. Kentonio Jan 2016 #201
DanTex. He's far more qualified to analyze a national health care system than Robert Reich. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #208
Single payer would save hundreds of billions each year on healthcare costs. mhatrw Jan 2016 #127
You realize Bernie didn't make up his numbers, they were calculated by a real actual economist. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #205
"Europe" has several different types of BlueMTexpat Jan 2016 #105
name one that spends anywhere near as much per capita for nonuniversal coverage. nt mhatrw Jan 2016 #128
That really wasn't the point that I was BlueMTexpat Jan 2016 #168
I'm European, and I think you're full of it. anigbrowl Jan 2016 #188
Well that is what Jon Stewart said we would have to do if we wanted to win. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #3
And I agree, there is something to that. So far all the crazy has come from one side. DanTex Jan 2016 #7
Well, you did call us Bernie supporters the... tex-wyo-dem Jan 2016 #141
Reminds me of all those left wing tea partiers mmonk Jan 2016 #4
debt enid602 Jan 2016 #45
Oh for cyring out loud.. Kentonio Jan 2016 #60
cheney enid602 Jan 2016 #67
If he said that, then he was quite correct. Kentonio Jan 2016 #77
Don't worry Kentonio... intersectionality Jan 2016 #117
In the current economic model, yes, consumer spending is the driver. malthaussen Jan 2016 #103
Debt is not always caused on the spending side. mmonk Jan 2016 #63
Beat me to it. Fuddnik Jan 2016 #81
We aren't broke. CrispyQ Jan 2016 #133
+1! tex-wyo-dem Jan 2016 #144
such a ridiculous post.....the hill people are getting very desperate bowens43 Jan 2016 #8
The "desperate" line is getting old. Bernie's SP numbers simply don't add up, and everyone who's DanTex Jan 2016 #11
And Bernie's unelectable, too, I suppose Proserpina Jan 2016 #17
Yes they do. Every country with single payer pays far less than America. Kall Jan 2016 #41
Even countries without single payer pay far less than America. DanTex Jan 2016 #49
You're a real piece of work Kall Jan 2016 #57
Gee, a personal attack. DanTex Jan 2016 #61
I admire your ability to present a cogent argument stopbush Jan 2016 #97
You insult Sanders' supporters by calling them a left-wing "tea party." Chef Eric Jan 2016 #116
It's hilarious when people can't refute DanTex's facts redstateblues Jan 2016 #118
What facts? All he has is bald assertions--opinions. Proserpina Jan 2016 #189
Bernie's not "realistic" enough, so you'll take corporate profiteering and like it! nt mhatrw Jan 2016 #130
Might be getting old, but it's still completely accurate. NorthCarolina Jan 2016 #76
"Left-wing tea party"? beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #9
This ^ putting down the use of the "left wing tea party" term was alerted on RiverLover Jan 2016 #44
LOL! beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #161
Really? cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #10
That was referring to his financial reform plans, not his Single Payer. DanTex Jan 2016 #13
Single Payer is an integral part of his financial reform plans Proserpina Jan 2016 #18
How so? I don't see how financial regulations and healthcare are related. DanTex Jan 2016 #19
Break out of the Hillary group once in a while and catch up Proserpina Jan 2016 #22
Maybe you could explain it to me then. It's true, I haven't been reading much DU recently. DanTex Jan 2016 #24
economists enid602 Jan 2016 #47
Okay.. let's talk about this... cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #27
Well, since Bernie's plan doesn't add up, we don't know who exactly would pay more. DanTex Jan 2016 #31
You know... cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #42
I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes, not just for universal healthcare, but for a lot of other DanTex Jan 2016 #51
The people who would mind are young people who rarely get sick. stopbush Jan 2016 #108
Everyone gets old. Kentonio Jan 2016 #162
Lots of people die young. Most young people think they'll never get sick or old. stopbush Jan 2016 #214
With your present combined income you and your INdemo Jan 2016 #106
Yeah we know who likes to side with the tea party Mnpaul Jan 2016 #15
And who is openly courting Trump voters? baldguy Jan 2016 #37
Hillary? Human101948 Jan 2016 #54
Sanders. As you should know. baldguy Jan 2016 #59
Maybe it would be a good thing to lure some of those voters away from Trump? Human101948 Jan 2016 #65
They need a lot of re-education before they'd be worthy members of the Democratic coalition. baldguy Jan 2016 #84
Nobody is accepting their racist, xenophobic or misogynist predilictions... Human101948 Jan 2016 #92
Trump supporters don't hate Wall St & the 1% for taking a majority of the pie & leaving crumbs baldguy Jan 2016 #111
How did he pander to them? Human101948 Jan 2016 #136
As opposed to completely indistinguishable from a republican pipoman Jan 2016 #20
The Republicans have voted to repeal Obamacare something like 50 times. DanTex Jan 2016 #26
Here is a real fantasy - believing anything that Hillary says will actually happen. n/t djean111 Jan 2016 #25
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service nc4bo Jan 2016 #29
Juror #2... Oh boy... But accurate. Agschmid Jan 2016 #35
And that is worse than the RW corporate party leanings of Hillary? hobbit709 Jan 2016 #112
Let them compare us to Tea Bagers pinebox Jan 2016 #135
Ever More FUD Promoted By Team HRC cantbeserious Jan 2016 #30
Croutons and a nice vinaigrette wouldn't help this angry word salad. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #39
Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #64
Wow. My contempt for neoliberal democrats continues to be validated leftupnorth Jan 2016 #70
More "Very Serious People" bullshit. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #71
Interesting choice of phrase, since Krugman, who popularized "VSP" is one of the people pointing out DanTex Jan 2016 #73
ITT: Desperation MrChuck Jan 2016 #75
Why is that the goal? What's wrong with the German healthcare system? DanTex Jan 2016 #80
Are you advocating for that? MrChuck Jan 2016 #82
The German system is a lot like Obamacare. DanTex Jan 2016 #86
^^^naysaying MrChuck Jan 2016 #88
Obamacare doesn't represent failed ambitions to me. I don't get the obsession with single payer. DanTex Jan 2016 #91
We needn't agree. MrChuck Jan 2016 #101
Sorry for the link, but... MrChuck Jan 2016 #89
The German system is very cumbersome DFW Jan 2016 #90
Thanks for the insight. The point that I'm trying to make is that in terms of coverage and cost DanTex Jan 2016 #95
There are probably very few countries where everyone is thrilled with their system DFW Jan 2016 #109
This message was self-deleted by its author DanTex Jan 2016 #122
Onviously Hillary supporters immediately INdemo Jan 2016 #93
Actually, the opposite is true. Bernie supporters automatically assume the plan will work simply DanTex Jan 2016 #96
Never mind Krugman INdemo Jan 2016 #113
"Angry white people, Majic unicorns, Left-wing Tea party" think Jan 2016 #94
Not working...Another posting that tells me to 100% support Bernie! Great thanks! Bernie 2016! Yupy Jan 2016 #100
And the other choice is No-We-Can't! SoapBox Jan 2016 #104
I thnk your post would be better without the inflammatory headline. malthaussen Jan 2016 #107
One can only wonder. FlaGranny Jan 2016 #110
You're right, it's fantasy proposals that have turned the Democratic party into a 3rd way........ raindaddy Jan 2016 #119
How in the hell is Hillary Clinton "better" on healthcare? mhatrw Jan 2016 #120
She wants to improve Obamacare to get it working like other similar mandate/subsidy DanTex Jan 2016 #126
Bullshit. Obamacare is unpopular for a reason. Big Pharma, Big Hospitals and Big Insurance mhatrw Jan 2016 #219
Bernie if he wins will NOT be nominated is BS and bkkyosemite Jan 2016 #129
Nice word salad! redstateblues Jan 2016 #131
Thank you here I'll even throw in some croutons bkkyosemite Jan 2016 #138
It's truly sad "Democrats" are throwing universal health care under the bus pinebox Jan 2016 #132
Single payer and universal healthcare are not the same thing. I'm always surprised how many people DanTex Jan 2016 #137
It's the same thing pinebox Jan 2016 #140
No, it's definitely not. You can have single payer without universal coverage, and you can have DanTex Jan 2016 #146
Holland has universal health care and is single payer pinebox Jan 2016 #148
It's universal, but it's not single payer. Not sure why this is so complicated. DanTex Jan 2016 #149
No Dan pinebox Jan 2016 #211
Nope anigbrowl Jan 2016 #202
Holland has universal health care pinebox Jan 2016 #210
To improve Obamacare...Baby Steps: Having the Child I Always Wanted Omaha Steve Jan 2016 #134
I love the smell of desperation in the morning whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #142
Just a hint--you're probably not going to win this argument here DFW Jan 2016 #143
All these poor delusional countries Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #147
Oh, NO!! Left Wing!! Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #150
Jeezus Fucking Christ. This health plan is what EVERY other industrialized country has Matariki Jan 2016 #151
That's not even close to true. DanTex Jan 2016 #156
It's truer than your OP Matariki Jan 2016 #157
Sorry- Bernie's numbers don't add up. Saying fuck that does not make them add up redstateblues Jan 2016 #164
This is just so wrong Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #234
In other words, I was exactly right. DanTex Jan 2016 #235
In other words, you are completely wrong about Germany and sort of right about The Netherlands Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #236
I was and continue to be 100% correct. DanTex Jan 2016 #238
OK You Win Nanjeanne Jan 2016 #239
How did it come to... peace13 Jan 2016 #153
Highly recommended taught_me_patience Jan 2016 #155
Left wing tea party? Z_California Jan 2016 #158
So every major country on earth has a tea party government? AgingAmerican Jan 2016 #159
Thanks Quayblue Jan 2016 #160
OPs like these do a disservice to the Democratic Party and whomever you are supporting. nt TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #165
Didn't Ronald Reagan call Medicare a fantasty back in the 60's? EndElectoral Jan 2016 #169
The ACA is essentially a Repug system, sadoldgirl Jan 2016 #171
This is excellent analysis, DanTex Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #174
If he runs against Trump he'll lose IMO CommonSenseDemocrat Jan 2016 #177
Independents and moderates would be more apt to support Bernie's positions on TPP and H-1B visas... cascadiance Jan 2016 #231
Obviously Hillary cannot run on the issues. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #182
Are you talking about the fantasy health program virtually everyone on this site supported in 2008? Vinca Jan 2016 #183
It goes to show just how important leadership is. I don't want to be led down the dark hallway of Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #212
Bummer Mike__M Jan 2016 #194
According to Hillary we can't have single-payer Demobrat Jan 2016 #204
"The numbers don't add up" ymetca Jan 2016 #213
"Left wing tea party" is an oxymoron. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #215
Interesting. You replied to this post at first..... Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #222
Obviously Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #223
LOL! Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #224
Lol, Dan being Dan! Nt Logical Jan 2016 #216
wow DonCoquixote Jan 2016 #217
Nature abhors a vacuum.The party leaders should have realized that. Autumn Jan 2016 #221
Krugman-Sanders health plan looks a little bit like a standard Republican tax-cut plan Gothmog Jan 2016 #225
No other civilized, advanced country has a for-profit system. Arugula Latte Jan 2016 #229
That's not true. DanTex Jan 2016 #230
So, it is all hopeless Bettie Jan 2016 #232
It is *IMPOSSIBLE* for America to enjoy the same level of healthcare as every other developed nation Romulox Jan 2016 #240
I disagree, I think it's possible. Just not with the plan Bernie presented. DanTex Jan 2016 #241
Be honest--you and the other tax protesters OPPOSE universal care because of self interest ($$$) Romulox Jan 2016 #242
Tax protester, what? It's not a protest, its just a matter of the numbers not adding up. DanTex Jan 2016 #243
It's a matter of grotesque self-interest masquerading as concern. nt Romulox Jan 2016 #244
Maybe you should look in the mirror... DanTex Jan 2016 #245
I'm the one who volunteers to chip in to cover all Americans. You're the one...who won't. Romulox Jan 2016 #246
Strange assumptions you are making. I'm actually the one who wants to pay more DanTex Jan 2016 #247
Bizarre projection from a person struggling to defend the indefensible. nt Romulox Jan 2016 #248
Mirror, mirror. DanTex Jan 2016 #249
it would only be possible if we regained control of BOTH the House and Senate. What are the odds? Bill USA Jan 2016 #250
Bernie Sanders's fiction-filled campaign Gothmog Jan 2016 #253
I've always believed that this is an apt description and comparison. NurseJackie Jan 2016 #254
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»With his fantasy health-c...»Reply #45