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2016 Postmortem

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angrychair

(8,766 posts)
Fri Feb 5, 2016, 02:25 PM Feb 2016

I Will Die With Student Loan Debt [View all]

It is one of many reasons that Hillary's College Education Plan is Insulting and unworkable.
The wealthy will have it easy. They are going to ivy league and other top tier universities. No life-crushing debt.

The poor and middle class, people like me, not so easy right now. Life-crushing debt. Potentially life-long debt that can never be paid off before they die. Like me. I will likely die with unpaid student loan debt.
Her system is a poor improvement. In fact it is, in many ways, worse.

Let us look how a University education is done in many places in Europe:
Oxford University, Tier-1, world class University: $6,224/year for home and EU students (at current exchange rates. Grants for full tuition are easy to come by for EU students)

Kings College, Tier-1, world class University: $6,224/year for home and EU students (at current exchange rates. Grants for full tuition are easy to come by for EU students)

University of Amsterdam, Tier-1, world class University: $3,502/year for home and EU students (at current exchange rates. Grants for full tuition are easy to come by for EU students)

Trinity College of Dublin, Tier-1, world class University: ~$3-4000 /year* for home and EU students (at current exchange rates. *most meet the Irish government's requirements to qualify for tuition-free education. Most Irish and EU students go to college free.)

Germany- All German universities are tuition-free to all home, EU and International students.

That is a small sample set of tier-1, world class universities in Europe. These are the "ivy league" colleges of Europe.

What does The Clinton Education plan cover? State and community colleges. U.S.-based top tier, world class universities will still be out of reach for the majority of graduating U.S. seniors due to cost and accessibility.
We haven't even touched on the most disturbing aspect of this plan. The worst part of it is she is setting a 2-tier system for higher education. Her plan states "we're going to humiliate you to get your education paid for."
I say it like that because, in our current system, you may end up in mountains of debt but no one knows you are any different than any other student at the college or university. In her system, they will.
The poor and middle class, in her system, to get this great benefit, will be reduced working as a slave 10 hours a week without pay as a requirement to maintain their financial aid. Who cares if you need living money in a real job. Who cares if you are carrying a full load and doing your best to get good grades. Your poor, you lost the sperm and egg lottery, so you have to work harder.
Want a college eduction? I guess you will be scrubbing the toilets of rich kids like Chelesa 10 hours a week, carrying a full class load and hoping you still manage to pass.
#poorshaming

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I Will Die With Student Loan Debt [View all] angrychair Feb 2016 OP
Massive K&R..... daleanime Feb 2016 #1
sorry I don't understand your point hill2016 Feb 2016 #2
Sorry, you are not correct angrychair Feb 2016 #3
The research shows that students who work 10 hours a week have higher pnwmom Feb 2016 #87
Nothing wrong with working while going to school SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2016 #191
My kiddos go to college in Germany ask me anything pinebox Feb 2016 #28
I think the point was that Germany has one of the lowest college attendance rates in Europe Recursion Feb 2016 #134
But do you know why that is? pinebox Feb 2016 #166
I do know why that is, yes Recursion Feb 2016 #172
There is a chance I will die trying to escape student loan debt. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #4
Sucks to be you NobodyHere Feb 2016 #5
Great "I got mine, don't give a crap about you" attitude. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #8
The Third Way in action, don'tcha know. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #9
That is it, in a nutshell. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #14
The third way is increasingly looking like the old Repuglican way. reformist2 Feb 2016 #39
It sounds like..... backtomn Feb 2016 #53
Typical republican attitude. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #16
Deleted so not to stoop to that poster's level. nt PonyUp Feb 2016 #19
WOW that was unkind! onecent Feb 2016 #27
So is life NobodyHere Feb 2016 #29
I just love the ignore function. Good bye. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #31
Been a rough one, eh? Sorry to hear that! onecent Feb 2016 #32
Thanks to some people. You could work to make things better instead, you know. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #43
Martin Shkreli, is that you? nt JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2016 #169
Wow just wow..... pinebox Feb 2016 #33
Jury 2-5 to keep this. Unbelievable. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #35
The elitists are out in force today. nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #45
Well, the poster's a ******, but the post in itself isn't hide-worthy Orrex Feb 2016 #85
I voted to keep it because I knew he would get thrashed LittleBlue Feb 2016 #112
Ah! A Hillary supporter. Katashi_itto Feb 2016 #60
Bernie supporter actually NobodyHere Feb 2016 #65
Mmmhmmm. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #72
Yeah right. Katashi_itto Feb 2016 #122
Tell you what ... Trajan Feb 2016 #152
Anyone with a user name like "Nobody Here" has serious issues Lorien Feb 2016 #167
Yeah! Fuck everybody else! Orrex Feb 2016 #83
So, how'd you do it? Duppers Feb 2016 #121
Kind of a shitty thing to say. redwitch Feb 2016 #125
It sucks to read your post... MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #137
I weep for you. nt retrowire Feb 2016 #148
Sheesh ... Trajan Feb 2016 #151
When? progressoid Feb 2016 #160
Daddy and Mommy paid for it. mac56 Feb 2016 #168
Sanders also only covers state universities dsc Feb 2016 #6
True angrychair Feb 2016 #11
Pls explain to me the "work 10 hours a week for a free education" statement brush Feb 2016 #20
Seems ok to you angrychair Feb 2016 #26
What's with the smart ass response? I asked if there were other strings attached. brush Feb 2016 #133
I would argue AZ Jim Feb 2016 #179
Under Sanders program if you are expecting the government to pay for your board dsc Feb 2016 #25
Another false claim. Sanders isn't making anyone work at all. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #47
that help consists of work programs and loans dsc Feb 2016 #48
Funny, you left out GRANTS. How is it that Hillary supporters always forget the important things? Live and Learn Feb 2016 #49
As a mother during the late 90s and early 00s, I was raising Skidmore Feb 2016 #131
So??? nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #15
over half the OP is about what a vile program Hillary has since she only covers state universites dsc Feb 2016 #23
That is simply not true. One sentence in the OP is dedicated to that. Live and Learn Feb 2016 #24
I may die with unpaid college debt TeddyR Feb 2016 #7
So corporate welfare is ok? angrychair Feb 2016 #10
Tore the words right out of my mouth. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #17
Can't you be against both? Nt metroins Feb 2016 #84
College is overrated. Elmergantry Feb 2016 #30
Yes angrychair Feb 2016 #36
If they can't do a cost-benefit analysis NobodyHere Feb 2016 #41
Not hard. Elmergantry Feb 2016 #52
I would expect Republicans to view education that way, not Democrats. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #37
I swear, when it comes to things like higher education SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #156
I agree, it is over rated! leftofcool Feb 2016 #44
I wish I was more "handy" Elmergantry Feb 2016 #50
Fantastic! leftofcool Feb 2016 #59
Follow your own advice and do research. Because you're clueless jeff47 Feb 2016 #61
Learn a trade Elmergantry Feb 2016 #86
And they're supposed to know that before going to college because.......? jeff47 Feb 2016 #103
Nothing in life is guarenteed. Elmergantry Feb 2016 #154
Then why are you arguing as if job prospects are guaranteed? jeff47 Feb 2016 #163
I am arguing they are better Elmergantry Feb 2016 #193
Hmmm... let's do that whatthehey Feb 2016 #106
I tell my college students that although it used to be possible to declare bankruptcy tblue37 Feb 2016 #127
How did you "get screwed"? TeddyR Feb 2016 #51
Sad. Just sad. No wonder only 30% of Americans consider themselves Democrats anymore. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #54
Doesn't answer the question TeddyR Feb 2016 #58
"..massive tax increases to pay for that plan." HeartoftheMidwest Feb 2016 #76
Very well put, HM! nt Mnemosyne Feb 2016 #146
What do you think TeddyR Feb 2016 #180
Don't really want to digress from the topic of the OP.... HeartoftheMidwest Feb 2016 #184
With respect to digressing from the topic TeddyR Feb 2016 #185
Sorry if I wasn't clear. HeartoftheMidwest Feb 2016 #187
Must be nice to live in your world angrychair Feb 2016 #70
Your better off. Elmergantry Feb 2016 #89
ROFL angrychair Feb 2016 #99
So your in IT? Elmergantry Feb 2016 #155
So what is your complaint? TeddyR Feb 2016 #181
Wow. I would say I can't believe this is what the Democratic Party has turned into but liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #13
I can pinebox Feb 2016 #34
+ another RiverLover Feb 2016 #144
Seriously??? Is that what you thought about the Company Stores where Live and Learn Feb 2016 #18
What is the babble about TeddyR Feb 2016 #55
And there you have it. leftofcool Feb 2016 #22
Pink unicorns and fairy dust. We Can't Do that!! Live and Learn Feb 2016 #12
I worked my way through. leftofcool Feb 2016 #21
So did I. RiverLover Feb 2016 #40
When? progressoid Feb 2016 #159
Back when college tuition was 1500 a semester and minimum wage was 90 cents an hour. leftofcool Feb 2016 #170
So, at the far left side of that graph then. progressoid Feb 2016 #189
...and far fewer German Citizens get the benefit of the free tuition brooklynite Feb 2016 #38
It's a bit of a misleading chart Bradical79 Feb 2016 #192
What I don't understand is the mindset of having to go full time to a 4 year university Press Virginia Feb 2016 #42
There is no one size fits all model. That is the problem. I am glad you were able to work liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #46
That is what my oldest son did. Went to a commnity college for two years (made sure Waldorf Feb 2016 #115
It's a smart way to do it Press Virginia Feb 2016 #120
Maybe.... backtomn Feb 2016 #56
Have we been secretly transported to FreeRepublic? I can't handle hearing liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #57
I have a degree..... backtomn Feb 2016 #62
No, you're just a jerk. n/t Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #79
This whole thread is full of the same catch phrases isn't it? laundry_queen Feb 2016 #74
ITA Dems2002 Feb 2016 #153
There is 1 STEM job opening for every 6 STEM graduates. jeff47 Feb 2016 #64
You have to take that into account treestar Feb 2016 #67
Banks don't hand out the loans anymore. jeff47 Feb 2016 #102
I never mentioned visas, but.... backtomn Feb 2016 #77
Apparently you have never heard Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #80
Yep Economics cant be ignored. Elmergantry Feb 2016 #91
The thing you claimed was a smart choice isn't. jeff47 Feb 2016 #101
The government used to bankroll public colleges Arazi Feb 2016 #175
If I had to go to college now treestar Feb 2016 #63
There are a lot of hard conversations that have to be had bluestateguy Feb 2016 #66
My husband was told in high school by the principle he would never amount to anything. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #71
Good for your husband. Beacool Feb 2016 #142
TY. Nice to hear common sense. N/T Elmergantry Feb 2016 #94
I must admit I am constantly shocked by the amount of student debt SheilaT Feb 2016 #68
The system is the problem, not the students. We keep blaming average Americans for liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #78
It's not entirely the system. SheilaT Feb 2016 #88
If we had tuition free college, we wouldn't have to limit students choices based on debt and income liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #90
Tuition free, or very low tuition is something I support. SheilaT Feb 2016 #100
"The system" and "the parents" are both problems TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #110
How did they pay for junior college? liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #111
Lived at home and got jobs. TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #114
I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to community college. My daughter goes to liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #116
True, but many more students go to college these days, as well. TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #118
Are you seriously comparing 10 hours of work a week to slavery? taught_me_patience Feb 2016 #69
Frankly, I am shocked at the entitled attitude among some here. TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #113
Public colleges and universities were free in the 1960s. senz Feb 2016 #73
+1000000. Thank you. This thread is thoroughly depressing me. I think I'm just going to liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #75
No, they weren't free. Not all of them. I believe in California they were, but not in other states SheilaT Feb 2016 #82
Sorry. In a hurry I forgot to put "in California" in the title. But they were cheaper elsewhere. senz Feb 2016 #143
In the 60's about 5 percent went to college yeoman6987 Feb 2016 #130
Wrong. Enrollment increased from 29.4% in 1950 to-- eridani Feb 2016 #157
In very few places were they free, though they were much cheaper Recursion Feb 2016 #135
Working 10 hours a week is nothing dlwickham Feb 2016 #81
The other option is to flee the country and never return, JPnoodleman Feb 2016 #92
Exactly. Short term thinking on this will only lead to more problems down the road. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #93
Short term thinking is second nature in America unfortunately, JPnoodleman Feb 2016 #97
Poorshaming. K&R. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #95
We certainly could afford it if we weren't spending trillions on war. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #96
We have positively useless weapons systems, JPnoodleman Feb 2016 #98
It's got to be tuition and fees. The fees are way more than tuition, at least in MA. seaglass Feb 2016 #119
Thanks. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #136
Student Loans, many of them predatory . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #104
If I had to do it over: I'd go to a trade school and learn to be a plumber or electrician. Paper Roses Feb 2016 #105
For those who want to be plumbers that is great. We also need doctors, scientists, liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #107
I understand your perspective angrychair Feb 2016 #108
I chose to fight to change it. Those who fought for the Labor Movement, the Women's liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #109
Problem is that you need to be a family member to get into one of those corrupt unions n/t taught_me_patience Feb 2016 #117
Sorry someone had to work a whole 10 hours a week to help pay tuition. zappaman Feb 2016 #123
ditto Roy Ellefson Feb 2016 #124
I'm sorry, but if you think that Sanders will get free college tuition for all, Beacool Feb 2016 #126
exactly Roy Ellefson Feb 2016 #129
I know, I know, the revolution is coming and millions of people will take to the streets demanding workinclasszero Feb 2016 #174
Hidden in your post is the supposition that ONLY Sen. Sanders will be elected. HeartoftheMidwest Feb 2016 #188
Actually, that's not a factual argument. Beacool Feb 2016 #190
You are not alone. PowerToThePeople Feb 2016 #128
Why did YOU take out so much debt, with no hope of repaying it? Kang Colby Feb 2016 #132
Everyone who takes debt for college expects to be able to repay it. RiverLover Feb 2016 #145
I think it's a fair question... Kang Colby Feb 2016 #158
tuition is only 20% or less of total cost of college BlueStateLib Feb 2016 #138
Ya know, Bernie's plan is about State colleges, too. Orangepeel Feb 2016 #139
Hillary attended Yale and paid for it herself. Beacool Feb 2016 #140
Also bluestateguy Feb 2016 #149
True..... Beacool Feb 2016 #150
Look closer greymattermom Feb 2016 #141
so will I.... mike_c Feb 2016 #147
I don't think it's unreasonable Ms. Yertle Feb 2016 #161
Oddly, I agree with both sides here. noamnety Feb 2016 #162
Curious angrychair Feb 2016 #171
Yes and no. My college payment was a mess. noamnety Feb 2016 #173
The only solution is revolution. This is not some cheesy slogan. Zorra Feb 2016 #164
The University where I teach is $23,300 a year Lorien Feb 2016 #165
Truthfully, these are the types of schools that need to be closed -- at least taken off loan list. Hoyt Feb 2016 #177
My heart breaks for you AZ Jim Feb 2016 #176
So I scrimped and saved so my daughter could redstateblues Feb 2016 #178
I admire what you did for your daughter TeddyR Feb 2016 #182
this thread is so depressing Roy Ellefson Feb 2016 #183
What does the bank bailout TeddyR Feb 2016 #186
Post removed Post removed Sep 2016 #194
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