K&R.. (Reply #123) - Democratic Underground

In the discussion thread: Mustn't we reevaluate our party since it is is going through a right wing realignment? [View all]

Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Thu May 12, 2016, 09:29 AM

disillusioned73 (2,872 posts)

123. K&R..

What a fantastic OP.. so well said and plainly laid out - I am in complete agreement. What worries me though is where do we go from here??.. if the Democrats have chosen to NOT be the party of labor/people anymore (obvious to anyone paying attention) where will the alternative come from??... how have new parties evolved over history?? how does one go about building and sustaining a real third party??.. it seems daunting and improbable, but I don't know the complete history of the parties and their various transitions throughout history.. rebuild from within might still be the best option at this point.. just like Bernie is trying to do.

disillusioned... itz becoming an understatement

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161 replies	Author	Time	Post
Mustn't we reevaluate our party since it is is going through a right wing realignment? [View all]	Dragonfli	May 2016	OP
Hillary and the DNC are not right wing. They are more moderate than you like, that's all.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#1
Aiding and abetting the ongoing power grab of Wall St and Corporate Monopolists is not moderate	Armstead	May 2016	#3
Well Said!	Ferd Berfel	May 2016	#38
If allowing the people to decide is a CHANGE that reduces profits it may beforbidden by trade policy	Baobab	May 2016	#44
If TPP is enacted	Ferd Berfel	May 2016	#90
And bumper-stickers filled with the flavor-of-the-day pejoratives are not arguments.	LanternWaste	May 2016	#41
Not the flavor of the day	Armstead	May 2016	#43
And yet funnily enough	whatthehey	May 2016	#154
The 70's were a mess and the Democrats were trying to figure out what to be	Armstead	May 2016	#155
So ok Clinton's didn't start it. When should we grab the platform of the real Dem party?	whatthehey	May 2016	#156
There never was a Golden Era....But on balance the Dems had more principles	Armstead	May 2016	#157
And Clinton and Obama likewise	whatthehey	May 2016	#158
You're either getting hoodwinked or you're doing the hoodwinking.	Broward	May 2016	#4
You need to realize what the right wing actually is.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#5
The Right wing is pro War ,pro Wall Street, against Single Payer , just like Hillary.	bahrbearian	May 2016	#8
Bernie voted to remove Saddam, build F-35s, deregulate derivatives. He's a conservative!!	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#12
Lol and Hillary is a Progressive who like to get things done" Like War, Coups, and Donations	bahrbearian	May 2016	#16
That kind of stuff is only conservative...	TwilightZone	May 2016	#17
Remind me of the Vote Bernie made to remove Saddam was It the IRW?	bahrbearian	May 2016	#21
1999. Authored by Rumsfeld. Made regime change the official US stance.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#22
but regime change does not, nor does it always, come through war. Saddam was a	Exilednight	May 2016	#28
A conservative Democratic Socialist? Twisting political categories to avoid the painful truth about	Kip Humphrey	May 2016	#26
I'm saying you can't use two positions to determine the whole.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#46
Could it be a Democratic supply sider?	immoderate	May 2016	#9
They are playing their assigned role. Nothing more.	arcane1	May 2016	#20
OK , you convinced me.	bahrbearian	May 2016	#6
And yet you think Bernie and his supporters are fringe Left wing?	-none	May 2016	#7
Heh. Bernie is just LBJ with a 4-barrel carburetor.	Eleanors38	May 2016	#77
I do not support her in the Primary	SheenaR	May 2016	#10
Comparing us to Europe doesn't work. Different people, differing issues.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#11
I disagree with you	SheenaR	May 2016	#13
Bernie is the center? Who in this country is to his left?	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#18
I didn't say center	SheenaR	May 2016	#23
We don't live in vaccuums.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#45
This isn't family feud. Just because we have no serious left...	arendt	May 2016	#53
If there is no, as you put it, serious left, the center is not where you think it is.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#58
If left,right, and center mean different things in different places, they are meaningless words.	arendt	May 2016	#63
I didn't say the center's 'ok', just that it's the center. Center is a measurement, not a philosophy	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#66
A measurement is not a policy.	arendt	May 2016	#69
Liberal is immediately to the left of center. Conservative immediately to the right	AgingAmerican	May 2016	#106
There are 3 centres. The center between the Republicans and the Democrats. And then the two	Seeinghope	May 2016	#116
We have anti-business leftists who oppose capitalism.	senz	May 2016	#78
The American center isn't far enough left.	forjusticethunders	May 2016	#34
Well, can't say you're wrong. Chris Hedges agrees with you.	arendt	May 2016	#54
I want a left that:	forjusticethunders	May 2016	#84
First off, read history as to why that has happened	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#86
"The Turner Raids"	Sparkly	May 2016	#130
1917	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#145
There is some overlap in our positions, but...	arendt	May 2016	#126
Tell us how you really feel	forjusticethunders	May 2016	#128
The issues are real. Identity politics is the wrong approach.	arendt	May 2016	#138
"no rule as to when", not "no real as to when" n/t	arendt	May 2016	#139
Minefield ahead...oh well	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#151
When we're past racism and sexism, that might make sense.	Sparkly	May 2016	#131
IP is not going to get us past racism	arendt	May 2016	#140
This. All of this.	vintx	May 2016	#132
From where you stand that is, she looks lefty to you	All in it together	May 2016	#29
Pro fracking	AgingAmerican	May 2016	#31
Not to mention...	Ferd Berfel	May 2016	#39
also not to mention,	bvar22	May 2016	#95
translation;	Ferd Berfel	May 2016	#98
"Corporations are Free at last!"	reddread	May 2016	#159
+1	Proud Liberal Dem	May 2016	#36
They are Right Wing by definition, their goals and their actions, their only "moderation" lies in	Dragonfli	May 2016	#40
That's fine. It doesn't change that Hillary is to the left of TODAY'S center.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#49
I disagree, besides, you are CHANGING DEFINITION AGAIN did you not read the polls that refute even	Dragonfli	May 2016	#52
Since there is no set philosophy from the "center party", of course I meant the center of our two.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#56
More rhetorical bullshit	arendt	May 2016	#55
Jim Crow used to be 'centrist' policy. Politics changes with time.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#59
Who cares. Jim Crow was heinous wherever on your phony L/R/C scale you put it.	arendt	May 2016	#71
I'm not defending anything.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#72
I don't think there are "center" policies.	arendt	May 2016	#73
So you can't define the center, and yet it can never shift? Yeah, that's a solid argument.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#75
It doesn't shift because it doesn't exist/	arendt	May 2016	#76
OMG!!!! Not "Goodbye FOREVER". Crushing blow. nt	COLGATE4	May 2016	#101
At least you tried. Reality doesn't matter cause they're with her. nt	vintx	May 2016	#133
They appear to have constructed their own reality, it really is quite fascinating in a detached way	Dragonfli	May 2016	#143
There is no such thing as 'todays' center	AgingAmerican	May 2016	#107
Actually what it does not change is that HRC	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#146
Yeah, because that platform...	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#150
Because of actions like pushing for trade agreements that benefit	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#153
Here is an objective, unbiased analysis from politicalcompass.org	tabasco	May 2016	#47
That compares us to Europe. I'm talking about American politics.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#48
Again, this is the equivalent of "moral relativism"	arendt	May 2016	#61
Everything is relative.	CrowCityDem	May 2016	#64
Fine. Then, from where I stand, you are a complete propagandist.	arendt	May 2016	#70
We actually have an active communist party in the United States	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#85
"And political science paradigms are not dependent on relative things." Thank you for stating that.	Dragonfli	May 2016	#120
You welcome and RWers used to do this as well	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#144
Right versus left are universal standards, not "U.S. standards"	tabasco	May 2016	#74
No, that puts our politics in a standard political science structure	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#82
Political science is not that malleable	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#79
What does "Moderate" mean?	AgingAmerican	May 2016	#105
They're moderate all right -	LiberalElite	May 2016	#161
This genie is out of the bottle... this party will change forever when Sanders is denied	yourpaljoey	May 2016	#2
The timid and Republican lite Democrats simply create a bigger monster Republican Party all the time	highprincipleswork	May 2016	#14
Our party is indergoing a left-wing realignment. Long overdue. n/t	Orsino	May 2016	#15
??? With Hillary leading the party?	BillZBubb	May 2016	#30
Despite Clinton's likely win.	Orsino	May 2016	#33
That's right. Not all at once, but it is already underway. And now that Sanders has	silvershadow	May 2016	#57
my hope	Fairgo	May 2016	#81
I disagree.	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#147
It's still happening to our party.	Orsino	May 2016	#148
There is a nasty sub rosa conflict	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#149
Recommended!	H2O Man	May 2016	#19
Any compliment from you I consider high praise as your posts have always been so well thought out	Dragonfli	May 2016	#42
My thanks to both of you, both of you organize your thoughts and write them down	mrdmk	May 2016	#99
H2O and Dragon...	Optimism	May 2016	#115
Excellent job you two. n/t	JimDandy	May 2016	#152
This message was self-deleted by its author	potisok	May 2016	#51
Liberal and progressive ideals are much, much more important than the Party. [n/t]	Maedhros	May 2016	#24
Just because Bernie gets support from primarily white voters in conservative areas ...	Onlooker	May 2016	#25
The Democratic Party started to leave me when I was told it was a big tent that included Rick	djean111	May 2016	#27
I came to the conclusion that the democratic party is not my party so I left it.	Autumn	May 2016	#32
This is the Party's strategy:	Maedhros	May 2016	#109
Jamie Dimon whipping votes on the Senate floor at Obama's behest was the final straw.	Autumn	May 2016	#111
I left in 2009 or so, came back for Bernie, will leave ASAP.	Maedhros	May 2016	#114
Barney Frank, Wall Street banker, in charge of DNC rules committe?	amborin	May 2016	#35
Laughable and insulting	Dem2	May 2016	#37
LOL!! "Right wing realignment"	Sparkly	May 2016	#50
I think it is going through a "progressive vs. elitist" realignment even more than a "right vs. left	Attorney in Texas	May 2016	#60
That sounds about right to me!	Seeinghope	May 2016	#117
Better idea: The losers could start their own party. The majority wins in this Country.	Lil Missy	May 2016	#62
Right, and I can start my own car company in my garage.	arendt	May 2016	#67
Take heart. They may take the radical step of redesigning the donut logo and....	Tierra_y_Libertad	May 2016	#65
I've decided I will no longer aid and abet the rightward drift of the party by voting for DINOs.	Arugula Latte	May 2016	#68
++	Vincardog	May 2016	#93
Remember the day when it was Democrats that were blocking women from voting?	ViseGrip	May 2016	#80
and another three general party realignments.	nadinbrzezinski	May 2016	#87
Not sure many want to question it.	oldandhappy	May 2016	#83
Seems like you should have done some introspection about the 'revolution' -BEFORE the 'revolution'.	randome	May 2016	#88
Great post! K&R	Sky Masterson	May 2016	#89
K&R We need representation, period.	felix_numinous	May 2016	#91
I have to admit that I stopped registering Democrat after Bill Clinton's first term.	bjo59	May 2016	#92
MEGACHURCH MOMS!	Warren DeMontague	May 2016	#94
Excellent Essay, Dragonfli	bvar22	May 2016	#96
I'm sure you were quite pleased with my FDR quote in response to a sock that claims that Hillary	Dragonfli	May 2016	#110
this sure ain't the party of	elana i am	May 2016	#113
I ask myself that every time I visit this site now	vintx	May 2016	#134
Good post we should have had this conversation after the conservative Clinton administration. I am	Todays_Illusion	May 2016	#97
Well said!	Dark n Stormy Knight	May 2016	#100
So Long, Centrist Democrats	BlueStateLib	May 2016	#102
Message auto-removed	Name removed	May 2016	#103
you had the chance to 're-align' the party	bigtree	May 2016	#104
I did not, nor have ever wished to realign the party as a Right wing fiscal party that Resembles	Dragonfli	May 2016	#108
you sure talk some twaddle	bigtree	May 2016	#122
Pretty long winded answer tio dance your way out of falsely claiming I wanted a party realignment	Dragonfli	May 2016	#135
So basically you're saying that you reject reality and substitute it with your own?	vintx	May 2016	#137
Yes we must.	Optimism	May 2016	#112
Another OUTSTANDING OP Dragonfli!	2banon	May 2016	#118
You are most welcome, all I do is simply speak my mind, I have payed attention for decades /nt	Dragonfli	May 2016	#119
Yes, I believe Bernie supporters are probably the most highly informed of the entire electorate.	2banon	May 2016	#127
Call me a "moderate" for saying this if you will, but...	moriah	May 2016	#121
K&R..	disillusioned73	May 2016	#123
Kicked and recommended!	Enthusiast	May 2016	#124
THIS is what so many Democrats today don't grok. At ALL.	Triana	May 2016	#125
So incredibly well thought out, I wish more people saw this dynamic for what it is.	vintx	May 2016	#129
Thank you so much for this thread.	myrna minx	May 2016	#136
It is not a "right wing alignment." It is a right (as in correct) alignment. The days of just	Jitter65	May 2016	#141
You didn't read the OP, it is coming from politicians and corporate "think tanks"	Dragonfli	May 2016	#142
Yes, we must.	LWolf	May 2016	#160

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