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2016 Postmortem

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(6,007 posts)
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 03:07 PM Jun 2016

Hillary Clinton’s war crimes are unforgivable. No real progressive could ever support her. [View all]

Hillary Clinton made headlines with a speech in San Diego casting Donald Trump as unfit for the presidency due to the damage his incendiary rhetoric could cause. Simultaneously, the former Secretary of State sought to convince the California audience that she was the safer choice in foreign policy matters.

But when taking a closer look at US foreign policy under her leadership as the nation’s top diplomat, it’s obvious that Clinton could potentially be as disastrous as Trump if given the position of Commander-in-Chief.

Here are a few examples of countries where conditions are tremendously worse as a result of Hillary Clinton’s policies.

Hillary Clinton made Libya a failed state

In an April interview with Fox News, President Barack Obama, reflecting on his 7 years as Commander-in-Chief, admitted that ousting Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi was the biggest mistake of his presidency. While Obama took responsibility for the failure of Libya in that interview, he relied on the input of Hillary Clinton, his Secretary of State at the time.

In March of 2011, Clinton met with Mahmoud Jibril, who was leading the opposition to Gaddafi. As the New York Times reported, Clinton asked Jibril a series of questions about how his coalition planned to fill the power vacuum that would be created by Gaddafi’s ouster. And in the end, it was Clinton who convinced the White House that deposing Gaddafi was the right thing to do:

Her conviction would be critical in persuading Mr. Obama to join allies in bombing Colonel Qaddafi’s forces. In fact, Mr. Obama’s defense secretary, Robert M. Gates, would later say that in a “51-49” decision, it was Mrs. Clinton’s support that put the ambivalent president over the line.


Hillary Clinton deserves credit for poverty and instability in Haiti

In Haiti, the first state ever founded by freed black slaves, citizens are still fighting for political and economic freedom today, largely due to the influence of Bill and Hillary Clinton.

In 2011, Wikileaks published US State Department cables from 2008 and 2009 confirming that State Department officials were meeting behind closed doors with Haitian business leaders, plotting on how to stop the Haitian government from implementing a 37-cent hike in the minimum wage from $0.24 an hour to $0.61 cents an hour.

While Haitian President René Préval was initially neutral on the proposal of raising the minimum wage, he went on the record opposing the wage hike after consistent efforts from within the US Embassy in Haiti and the Haitian business lobby by July of 2009. Politifact rated the claim that Clinton’s State Department tried to suppress the wage hike as half-true, since there’s no link proving that Clinton directly played a role.


Honduras’ downfall resulted from a coup Clinton supported

In 2009, shortly after Obama took office and appointed Hillary Clinton as his Secretary of State, Honduran president Manuel Zelaya was arrested at gunpoint by the military and forced onto a plane to Costa Rica while a new government took power. While the US State Department didn’t directly oust Zelaya, it refused to call his ouster a coup, despite calls from the U.S. ambassador to Honduras and from Congress to do so. In her interview with the New York Daily News editorial board, Clinton defended her decision to keep sending aid to Honduras despite the violent overthrow of Zelaya:

I think, in retrospect, we managed a very difficult situation, without bloodshed, without a civil war, that led to a new election. And I think that was better for the Honduran people. But we have a lot of work to do to try to help stabilize that and deal with corruption, deal with the violence and the gangs and so much else.

However, the result of the coup was a massive amount of bloodshed, as gangs and drug cartels began to take more power in the absence of a stable government. In the year following the coup, Clinton’s State Department published a list of human rights abuses prevalent in Honduras:

“…unlawful killings by police and government agents, which the government took some steps to prosecute; arbitrary and summary killings committed by vigilantes and former members of the security forces; harsh prison conditions; violence against detainees; corruption and impunity within the security forces; lengthy pretrial detention and failure to provide due process of law; politicization, corruption, and institutional weakness of the judiciary; corruption in the legislative and executive branches; government restrictions on the recognition of some civil society groups; violence and discrimination against women; child prostitution and abuse; trafficking in persons; discrimination against indigenous communities; violence and discrimination against persons based on sexual orientation; ineffective enforcement of labor laws; and child labor.”


Clinton is responsible for the fall of Iraq and Syria (and the rise of ISIS)

In late 2011, after months of sustained anti-government protests inspired by the “Arab Spring” movement, Hillary Clinton called for the resignation of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. Then, in April 2012, Clinton gave a speech in Turkey more forcefully calling specifically for regime change, saying, “Assad must go.” Those three words created the policies that led to both the rise of ISIS in Syria and the European refugee crisis of 2015.

One of Clinton’s last actions as Secretary of State was to call for the arming of Syrian rebels fighting Assad. As the London Telegraph reported, Clinton’s plan to give weapons to Assad’s enemies was backed by not only former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, but also by former CIA director David Petraeus and General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. While Obama initially rejected his Secretary of State’s plan, he eventually agreed to arm Syrian rebels in the goal of ousting Assad.

However, as ISIS began to get a foothold into Syria and Iraq, the “moderates” that received weapons from the US were eventually overtaken by ISIS fighters, who suddenly found themselves in the possession of military-grade weapons paid for with US tax dollars. In a study conducted by Conflict Armament Research, which tracks the movement of arms in war-torn regions, researchers found that ISIS has weapons and ammunition not just from the US, but also from coalition forces that are funded by the US government. The access to advanced weaponry was likely the reason for ISIS’ rapid expansion into Libya, Egypt, and elsewhere.

The consequences of destabilizing Syria and Iraq are apparent. Over one million refugees, largely from countries where the US intervened militarily, fled to Europe between 2015 and 2016, creating the world’s largest refugee crisis since World War II.


Yemeni blood is on Hillary Clinton’s hands

Saudi Arabia’s invasion of Yemen, which started in 2015 and continues today, was made possible with arms purchased by the US government. Since Obama’s presidency, the US has sold approximately $46 billion in arms to the Saudis, with many of those weapons sales greenlighted by Hillary Clinton’s State Department. As US Uncut reported in April, Clinton was particularly focused on making sure the US came through for Saudi Arabia in a 2011 weapons deal. David Sirota of the International Business Times reported that Clinton argued the arms deal was “in the national interest.”

At press conferences in Washington to announce the department’s approval, an assistant secretary of state, Andrew Shapiro, declared that the deal had been “a top priority” for Clinton personally. Shapiro, a longtime aide to Clinton since her Senate days, added that the “U.S. Air Force and U.S. Army have excellent relationships in Saudi Arabia.”

Saudi Arabia is very likely using the weapons acquired from that 2011 exchange to wage brutal bombing campaigns in Yemen. In March, Foreign Policy magazine accused the US and its allies of complicity in war crimes by funding and arming the Saudi regime:

Hundreds of civilians have been killed in airstrikes while asleep in their homes, when going about their daily activities, or in the very places where they had sought refuge from the conflict. The United States, Britain, and others, meanwhile, have continued to supply a steady stream of weaponry and logistical support to Saudi Arabia and its coalition.

This week, the United Nations added the Saudi-led coalition to a blacklist of states and armed groups that violate children’s human rights during conflicts, with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon personally slamming Hillary Clinton is completely right that Donald Trump is woefully unprepared to take on the responsibilities of Commander-in-Chief. But voters should also be leery of Clinton, who, despite having met with more world leaders than any presidential candidate in US history, is responsible for some of the worst foreign policy blunders of the 21st century.


(sorry for putting up such a long piece, but there were so many sections)

133 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Kickin' Faux pas Jun 2016 #1
Double kick... so hopin' I won't be faced with that decision. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #127
Accusing the likely Democratic nominee of war crimes is unforgivable. MineralMan Jun 2016 #2
We'll just alert this crap after June 16. Once they get to 5 hides, they're gone Gomez163 Jun 2016 #7
That can be a two way street, and -none Jun 2016 #28
In reality the only time I saw Hil people hidden including me once Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #66
Selective memory, huh? -none Jun 2016 #86
Says the person melman Jun 2016 #51
In 13 days that will be zero hides and then I won't be leading with my chin. Gomez163 Jun 2016 #54
Bernie juries nt Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #67
You can't look at those hides melman Jun 2016 #72
Partisan politics is more important to you than innocent children being blown to pieces? bvar22 Jun 2016 #17
How many children do you think Trump will blow up? Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #68
I wasn't talking to you, bvar22 Jun 2016 #76
Trump Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #94
You keep glossing over the fact she's already committed massive atrocities and JRLeft Jun 2016 #109
I don't know. I do know 840high Jun 2016 #85
"War crimes" ? SCantiGOP Jun 2016 #119
Excusing horrendous actions just because there's a D after her name laruemtt Jun 2016 #32
That's a telling statement. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #36
i completely agree. why is this poster on DU? MariaThinks Jun 2016 #52
You've been here for less than 3 months. You aren't really equipped to judge who's fit to be on DU leveymg Jun 2016 #128
you're too funny. MariaThinks Jun 2016 #133
This is the kind of loyalist mentality I cannot abide. reformist2 Jun 2016 #69
If repubs did what HRC has done, we'd (all) be screaming bloody murder jack_krass Jun 2016 #89
which part of it wasn't true? yurbud Jun 2016 #97
Not nearly as unforgivable as ignoring war crimes Android3.14 Jun 2016 #104
What is unforgivable are the acts themselves. leveymg Jun 2016 #126
Losing hurts, huh? Get it out of your system...it's ok. nt LexVegas Jun 2016 #3
If a person can convince themselves that Tal Vez Jun 2016 #4
In that one area (warmongering), there is every reason to believe just that. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #14
I don't believe that Trump is faking. I think he really is nuts. Tal Vez Jun 2016 #44
The correct answer for me, a Bernie supporter is, I am voting for Bernie. JimDandy Jun 2016 #26
I understand. Tal Vez Jun 2016 #39
... JimDandy Jun 2016 #41
Time to slam the door on neocons for good. The only safe place for them is dinkytron Jun 2016 #5
Get 'em in while you still can...nt SidDithers Jun 2016 #6
and it isnt just progressives who object to the obscenity of Iraq reddread Jun 2016 #8
that's the crux of the vote: Sanders supporters who switch to Trump aren't doing it MisterP Jun 2016 #11
Please don't get DU in trouble for copyright violation emulatorloo Jun 2016 #9
You might want to learn what a war crime actually is. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #10
I was just going to say that. Things arent war crimes just because OP doesn't like them. stevenleser Jun 2016 #23
Me too. "War Crimes" accusations have been thrown around a lot lately. Granted, BunkieBandit Jun 2016 #83
Sadly, it falls into the category: if you repeat it enough it becomes true... Blanks Jun 2016 #103
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #12
Great post. bjo59 Jun 2016 #13
No, it's not. OP does not get to invent war crimes where none have been committed. nt stevenleser Jun 2016 #24
The OP has some really wild exaggerations fueled by unbridled anger. raging moderate Jun 2016 #101
No! No! No! They weren't really war crimes...just following orders or mere "mistakes". K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2016 #15
Clinton had touted the intervention in Libya as “smart power at its best,” Ichingcarpenter Jun 2016 #16
Before Hillary, Libya was the most advanced country in North Africa, bvar22 Jun 2016 #20
yes, exactly! even the pro-HRC NYT Condemns Hillary's Regime change in Libya: amborin Jun 2016 #22
Thank you bvar22. I think the times article says it all. They jwirr Jun 2016 #75
Thats how I see it. bvar22 Jun 2016 #80
So many times when we recognize these kinds of truths I jwirr Jun 2016 #82
A litany of whining and non-sequiturs Tarc Jun 2016 #18
Riiiightttt. Vote to defund the Iraqi war and hang our troops out to dry over there, without ammo -none Jun 2016 #31
Another silly conjecture from people who really don't understand how things work Tarc Jun 2016 #63
Meanwhile, while they get setup to bring our troops home, they are short of supplies anyway. -none Jun 2016 #84
Weak, just plain weak. Cheerleading better suits you. libdem4life Jun 2016 #108
It's funny how y'all can't let this go :) Tarc Jun 2016 #114
Let's see...you responded to me (point 1...can't let go) libdem4life Jun 2016 #115
The voters have spoken, and soundly rejected Sanders "vision" for the party Tarc Jun 2016 #116
I believe they are a couple of points apart. And FWIW, The Parties are libdem4life Jun 2016 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Jun 2016 #43
Thank you, thank you! 20score Jun 2016 #19
Her record is scary and horrifying! She is reckless, and either has amborin Jun 2016 #21
Perhaps both. 840high Jun 2016 #88
plus, her terrible action in Colombia: amborin Jun 2016 #25
I don't understand. She did this in multiple SOS decisions with financial gain to the Clintons or trudyco Jun 2016 #96
Whose lived in LIBYA?? Raise your hands. MFM008 Jun 2016 #27
he died she came we saw reddread Jun 2016 #29
Did/do you live there? If not...defer to someone who has...or just don't post. libdem4life Jun 2016 #105
sounds like they missed some important decades reddread Jun 2016 #112
So, you didn't live there. Just getting news like the rest of us? libdem4life Jun 2016 #113
I guess that depends, are you not getting cable, also? reddread Jun 2016 #129
It's worse now because of our intervention. That's what matters. That's a fact. 20score Jun 2016 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Jun 2016 #48
CALL THE HAGUE RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #33
THE NETHERLANDS IS AT DEFCON FIVE!!!!!!!!!!11!!1!1!1!! obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #40
TULIP DRONE: 3-2-1 Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Jun 2016 #49
Amen. It's distressing how unconcerned people are about this. CanadaexPat Jun 2016 #34
No true Scotsman would vote for Hillary Clinton nt Buzz cook Jun 2016 #35
The High Priests of Liberalism look down from on high ... JoePhilly Jun 2016 #37
A number of Democrats DON'T CARE about war crimes DerekG Jun 2016 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Jun 2016 #50
Sure we do, and Hillary hasn't committed any. If you disagree, name a war crime stevenleser Jun 2016 #93
Very Interesting libodem Jun 2016 #46
I've seen so many long posts, I had no idea. I hope it stays up. I did cut the article down pdsimdars Jun 2016 #47
Nobody seems to be alerting libodem Jun 2016 #57
I put the link to them so there shouldn't be any copyright problem. I gave them full credit. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #71
Zach Cartwright is just another H. A. Goodman. Slander is his main objective. riversedge Jun 2016 #53
Kill the Messenger. Impressive. libdem4life Jun 2016 #110
Not a Hillary fan TeddyR Jun 2016 #55
She blamed Obama for the rise of ISIS. AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #56
Like I said TeddyR Jun 2016 #59
But she IS a neoliberal hawk. AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #61
Eh TeddyR Jun 2016 #64
Promotes aggressive military intervention with the private sector (MIC) profiting. AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #79
So is Obama then. Maven Jun 2016 #111
I think that comes from the fact that Obama didn't want to go into Libya and Hillary talked pdsimdars Jun 2016 #73
I am very thankful that this lunacy will end 6/16 tandot Jun 2016 #58
No kidding. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #70
Blood Traces: Bernie’s Iraq War Hypocrisy riversedge Jun 2016 #60
Hillary Clinton’s war crimes - well: cpwm17 Jun 2016 #62
shouldn't there be a unicorn trotting across or an ostrich with head in the sand or something pdsimdars Jun 2016 #74
What will 'real' progressives do I wonder? Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #65
No true Scotsman would ever support her either. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #77
This post is unforgivable. Also it violates 4-paragraph copyrighted material limits. Hekate Jun 2016 #78
"No True Scotsman" Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #81
Easy to banter Trump, but her foreign policy record leaves a helluva lot to be desired. EndElectoral Jun 2016 #87
That's exactly what I thought. 840high Jun 2016 #90
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jun 2016 #91
Sadly so EndElectoral Jun 2016 #95
"war crimes" oh, please! She made some decisions that some don't agree with...some do. Jitter65 Jun 2016 #92
Thanks for this. The censorship crew is itching to shut down all truths about HRC senz Jun 2016 #98
The information should get out there even if people are uncomfortable with it. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #124
Who appointed you the arbiter of "real progressives"? Lord Magus Jun 2016 #99
Simple. Empire. We know what is best for the entire world libdem4life Jun 2016 #107
Her defenders argue that these aren't war crimes, but none seem to be arguing ... Scuba Jun 2016 #100
against the facts of history. reddread Jun 2016 #102
Keep on dividing us and being the authority in what progressives can and can't think/suppprt. moriah Jun 2016 #106
So Progressives can support killing over a million people who weren't a threat to us? yurbud Jun 2016 #117
Can progressives support leaders who open fire on peaceful protesters? moriah Jun 2016 #120
Like Saddam, whatever Khadaffi's sins, we've managed to leave the place far worse off yurbud Jun 2016 #121
No, we haven't. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #131
Do you have any sources you can cite for that? yurbud Jun 2016 #132
if abuse of their own people was really a reason for intervention, we'd invade a lot of allies first yurbud Jun 2016 #122
And ourselves for the campus shootings during Vietnam, I'm aware. moriah Jun 2016 #123
Thanks for this. Shameful and maddening. riderinthestorm Jun 2016 #125
The buck stops... jamese777 Jun 2016 #130
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