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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Greg Palast: How California is being stolen from Sanders right now [View all]JCanete
(5,272 posts)19. The whole system is undemocratic, not just the caucuses. But of course Hillary got more
votes, and I wouldn't dispute that. How the party establishment lined up and pushed, and shilled, yes even lied about Bernie's past and his record, and loved to count those super-delegates early on in the primary, and sell a meme of Bernie being for angry white men, when he overwhelming took the youth vote(which says something about how unlikely that characterization is), and how the media was complicit in all of it, is my biggest gripe, but that didn't come out of left field, so I certainly wasn't surprised when the DNC pulled down the veil a little bit.
The other shady shit, if in fact there was any, sounds like it was at the margins compared to the manufactured narratives or silences that helped to propel Clinton to the GE. I would not be surprised if that stuff happened, and I think its worth looking at, given that people at all levels of the establishment were "doing their part," but if it did, it just came down to padding, or slightly tipping. Maybe it helped with the narratives, or maybe people are being a little too hyper-paranoid. But I understand why they would be.
By the way, I'll just point out again, that I am in agreement with you about caucuses. When I first heard about them I think a state tipped to Bernie, and I was like, what the hell is that crazy shit? You vote and then somebody else has to show up some day in the future or your vote doesn't count? They are far less egregious than our super-delegate system in my opinion, but both should go. I was really anxious to see what would happen if Bernie got the popular vote and the Supers refused to switch to him. If you think the divisiveness is bad now, the DNC would have taken us nuclear with that move. And no, I don't think they would have switched to him, at least not quite enough of them.. He is the very reason there's such a thing as super-delegates.
As far as democracy winning goes, we appear to have very different lenses through which we see our government. I envy yours, because you apparently believe it isn't broken. I very much believe that money and capitalism have fracked the fuck out of its foundation.
I'll say this though. I hope you're right and I'm wrong.
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Nj stolen, NM stolen, SD maybe stolen, CA stolen, why is ND and MT not stolen if its so easy nt
msongs
Jun 2016
#1
They stole what they needed to. They didn't have the nerve to steal NH & VT.
reformist2
Jun 2016
#18
Its a catch 22. Say for just a second that there really were forces at work and most people didn't
JCanete
Jun 2016
#10
The whole system is undemocratic, not just the caucuses. But of course Hillary got more
JCanete
Jun 2016
#19
No objection to a lot of what you say, and just because I think our government is broken
JCanete
Jun 2016
#23
But Clinton entered politics and became wealthy. How do you know who the good guys are? nt
JCanete
Jun 2016
#25
I never said that only Bernie supporters have an issue with wealth concentration, but if you
JCanete
Jun 2016
#36
Good gawd, give it a rest. There's no dishonor in finishing with fewer votes.
geek tragedy
Jun 2016
#6
But the 1 in 77 billion chance of the exit polls being that wrong is interesting:
scscholar
Jun 2016
#13
Those "probabilities" are just as made-up as the "exit poll discrepancies." -nt-
Lord Magus
Jun 2016
#28
That doesn't explain the early voting before now that Hillary led by 10 points
stevenleser
Jun 2016
#9
By Palast's logic, my primary vote was stolen too! And I'm an independent in Florida.
Native
Jun 2016
#15
If you truly believe the democratic party steals every election, why not just immediately leave it?
qdouble
Jun 2016
#20