2016 Postmortem

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)

49. "Ideological purity" is a red herring though.

Sat Jul 2, 2016, 11:09 PM

Jul 2016

It was just argued here that ideas don't matter at all, just "winning." That's very silly.

I haven't seen anyone in American politics running on a no-compromises platform, nor any real right or left "wingers" running for President. Cruz was pretty far out on the Christian Right, but no one could fairly be called anything like a "purist."

I see this argument trotted out by conservative Dems who just don't like progressive Dems and prefer to imagine their own ideas are " the best we can do."

That's just posturing though. The truth is everyone even remotely in the running -- Trump perhaps being the exception -- has been a thoroughly modern, compromising politican with no overweening ideological fervor.

The better ones though would never make a nihilistic argument that "winning" matters more than the right ideas and policies.

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How do you reshape the Democratic Party? Start with winning the nomination. [View all] CajunBlazer Jul 2016 OP

If you don't care what the party stands for, then why bother? Scootaloo Jul 2016 #1

.that^ 840high Jul 2016 #53

This is the weirdest argument, eh? DirkGently Jul 2016 #75

That is one of the things for which I have the greatest respect for Sanders. pangaia Jul 2016 #84

Well obviously getting things done is a product of both, right? DirkGently Jul 2016 #85

Perhaps, as I suspect is true with many, pangaia Jul 2016 #88

^^^ THIS ^^^ HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #109

That's kinda what happens. HassleCat Jul 2016 #126

I care what the party stands for. I hope and pray the platform resembles silvershadow Jul 2016 #129

Dude, it's all about what the party stands for. Lunabell Jul 2016 #2

Hey dude, sheshe2 Jul 2016 #3

I don't have to justify myself to you. n/t Lunabell Jul 2016 #4

Thanks. sheshe2 Jul 2016 #6

Yea, like I said. Lunabell Jul 2016 #8

Integrity is being consistant in things you care about, knowing what our goals are. baldguy Jul 2016 #15

Well said. Make that an OP. n/t FSogol Jul 2016 #36

If the document doesn't matter, carries no legal weight, no moral authority pangaia Jul 2016 #86

Second, Bernie IS being consistant in the things he cares about. pangaia Jul 2016 #89

Some of us always have. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #63

It doesn't matter what a party stands for if it's not in power CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #5

It doesn't matter who's in power if they don't stand for anything. DirkGently Jul 2016 #40

I understand - you would rather be idealogically pure and lose... CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #45

"Ideological purity" is a red herring though. DirkGently Jul 2016 #49

The fact that you consider more moderate Democrats "conservatives" CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #50

More "conservative Democrats" are not "conservatives." DirkGently Jul 2016 #72

I didn't use the word "conservative" to describe Democrats like myself CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #73

Some Democrats are more conservative than others. DirkGently Jul 2016 #74

That is like saying that 2 is smaller than 4 so therefore 2 is a negative number CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #87

You don't think some Democrats are more conservative than others? DirkGently Jul 2016 #92

On a scale from extreme left to conservative . . . brush Jul 2016 #128

God, you have more patience than I do. Bless you. pangaia Jul 2016 #91

CajunBlazer—Sounds like you want to Republican into Democratic politics… CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #119

Thank you. 840high Jul 2016 #54

I have to disagree. It IS about winning. I am all about making changes. Not just talking about it. AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #55

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2016 #58

Winning what for whom? DirkGently Jul 2016 #71

Well, duh. It would depend on who & what. But the OP is about extreme ideologues.. AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #78

What a party stands for is an ongoing discussion. DirkGently Jul 2016 #83

Progressives are still in the party and very much represented. AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #94

And the discussion continues. Through elections. Through platforms. DirkGently Jul 2016 #98

At this point, I think the candidates have spoken plenty about issues AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #102

There is no active, visible far left in American politics. pangaia Jul 2016 #95

Be honest. You are talking about me because you are quoting me. AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #100

Gets 'us' to the table and doing the same ole same ole is a waste of time for other human beings. pangaia Jul 2016 #93

See posts upthread about being in a vacuum. AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #96

I already did. Non-sense. pangaia Jul 2016 #97

Calling it nonsense is not a discussion. I can say the same about your post and we can go back and f AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #101

CajunBlazer—The Ds are in power with the presidency right now. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #66

"Hard core progressives?" pangaia Jul 2016 #90

No one cares about the platform one week after the convention CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #7

CajunBlazer—Can Hillary win the general election with zero of Bernie Sanders’s primaries votes? CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #67

Too bad the vast majority of Sanders supporters comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #80

comradebillyboy—You actually cannot speak for Bernie Sanders’s primaries voters. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #99

I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself, however comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #106

I'm aware of that poll. However, we have not yet arrived at November 8, 2016. So… CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #107

The nominee should be permitted to design her own campaign. Tal Vez Jul 2016 #9

Hillary Clinton is the most important Democratic candidate this year Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #11

She's the only democratic presidential candidate. The sufrommich Jul 2016 #13

Yes, but Democratic Congressional candidates are also important. NT Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #16

That is another reason to prepare a platform that describes very general objectives Tal Vez Jul 2016 #43

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #111

Slight correction. She's the only Dem candidate left standing. brush Jul 2016 #27

The party platform is non-binding on the candidate, so Hillary has NorthCarolina Jul 2016 #34

Well said!! Nt AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #82

IMO BainsBane Jul 2016 #10

This ... BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #12

I agree. This crap is getting too cute by sufrommich Jul 2016 #14

That would require that he build an organization with his colleagues in the Senate. baldguy Jul 2016 #17

Bernie Sanders is a co-founder of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #19

And you've proven my point. baldguy Jul 2016 #20

My point is that Bernie Sanders co-founded a US House caucus which now has dozens of House members Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #23

"...and its only Senator." baldguy Jul 2016 #24

Members of the House don't have to join, either, but dozens did. Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #28

Members of the House don't have to deal with Sanders every day CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #46

and its only Senator" - one would think that he could have persuaded some of his EffieBlack Jul 2016 #51

+1, not something I'd be telling everyone if I was a SBS supporter uponit7771 Jul 2016 #59

Citing a proposal as being in Dem platform will help Sanders to build support for it in Congress. NT Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #18

You're assuming that adopting a socialist platform would be best for the party CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #21

No it won't. woolldog Jul 2016 #31

Usually the Democratic Party platform is platitudes. Eric J in MN Jul 2016 #69

NNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooo, not ONE person in congress can tell us more than 3 things about their party uponit7771 Jul 2016 #61

Can you imagine? BainsBane Jul 2016 #64

Don't we criticize Republican Senators when they abandon their jobs for campaigning? BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #22

The platform is a reason to carry on a lost battle La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #25

Absolutely spot on... Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #41

I totally agree. The limelight is hard to give up sometimes AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #56

NO NO NO!! Unicorns not logic dammit !!! /sarcasm. I've been saying for months that the house... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #57

The more Bernie works on the party platform the easier it is to vote for HRC. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #26

You do understand party platform is brochure ware right? means very little legislatively uponit7771 Jul 2016 #60

uponit7771—If that is so…Democratic Party can make all of Bernie Sanders’s platform theirs. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #68

Meaningless, but yet so much resistance from behind. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #105

Win/lose bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #29

Anyone remember the planks in the most progressive Dem platform DonViejo Jul 2016 #30

How did that work for us? CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #32

How did that work out? woolldog Jul 2016 #33

McGovern won 17 electorial college votes CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #35

Not Maryland, it was Massachusetts.... DonViejo Jul 2016 #37

My Bad - the map was very small and it looked like Maryland to me. CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #47

It didn't and, as you can see, no one as yet seems to remember... DonViejo Jul 2016 #38

Enlighten us CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #81

Democratic Party Platform of 1972 DonViejo Jul 2016 #103

I think that Sanders could sign on to that platform, but only if.... CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #104

Will you guys ever get over the primaries? AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #39

kick MariaThinks Jul 2016 #42

K&R mcar Jul 2016 #44

K+R! SaschaHM Jul 2016 #48

Both. Both are important. liberalmuse Jul 2016 #52

''your remaining supporter"? Ken Burch Jul 2016 #62

CajunBlazer—Take all of Bernie Sanders’s platform to become the Democratic Party’s. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #65

...er, you think we weren't TRYING to do that? Ken Burch Jul 2016 #70

I don't know, I think it's pretty important the "Democratic Party" has the right & best ideaa highprincipleswork Jul 2016 #76

You mean of course that... CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #79

When will those who support Hillary stop making so many assumptions about what other people highprincipleswork Jul 2016 #108

If you had the power to do so, what would you do about corporations... CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #110

In this challenging age of robotization and globalization, if economies are not enabled & motivated highprincipleswork Jul 2016 #112

I can't disagree with that CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #113

by winning the nomination. stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #77

here a quote for ya... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #114

So you think that if that if the peaceful revolution led by Sanders isn't successful... CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #115

interesting leap... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #116

Interesting deflection CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #117

Let's use your words against ya HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #118

That's pure BS!!!! CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #120

...perception... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #121

You're were wrong and you know and I know it. CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #122

convention should be fun... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #123

Not if the Sanders delgates decide to act like @$$s CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #124

based upon your responses one would perceive you believe that they already are... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #125

I have virtually no idea how Sanders convention delegatges have been acting to date CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #131

your numerous replies already show your 'conclusions'... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #132

I cannot draw conclusion about a situation on which I have no information CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #133

yeah, sure... HumanityExperiment Jul 2016 #134

The nominee gets to control the direction of the party Gothmog Jul 2016 #127

Absolutely! NurseJackie Jul 2016 #130