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zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
81. False dichotomy
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:19 PM
Nov 2012

Don't engage in the logical falicy of the false dichotomy. He didn't have only two choices. He doesn't have only two choices. He is in this mess largely of his own making. Remember, they are only there on his authority alone to begin with. With the stroke of a pen he could have "pardoned" them all and the place would be empty. He could have pursued civil trials (and probably lost every single one). He could have pursued much faster military tribunals, but has chosen not to. And you will note, he said absolutely NOTHING about Gitmo during the campaign, even though he regularly mentioned it in his first campaign.

From a recent article in Mother Jones:

Experts from both sides of the aisle do agree that when Obama talks about closing Guantanamo, he's not talking about ending the practice of indefinitely detaining terrorist suspects without trial. Instead, he's talking about what to do with the prisoners already in US custody, whose future is uncertain.

"Obama has embraced indefinite detention since 2009 and has never backed away from it," says Karen Greenberg*, who is the director of the Center on National Security at Fordham Law, and is the author of The Least Worst Place: Guantanamo's First 100 Days. "He's never clearly made that break from George W. Bush."

Stimson thinks the president doesn't want to limit his options. "No president in his right mind is going to constrain his ability to detain somebody," he says.

That means even if Obama does manage to close Guantanamo, the sticky issue of indefinite detention will remain, and civil liberties activists won't be satisfied. "There's no such thing as closing Guantanamo if you move the prisoners to Illinois or somewhere else on earth, and keep indefinite detention," Greenberg says.



Much of this indicates that he has chosen to accept the current situation and not particularly try to achieve his originally stated goal of "closing" Gitmo. At best he wants to move it.
I'm curious - what exactly needs to be done... dchill Nov 2012 #1
I favor Medicare for all. Cary Nov 2012 #5
+1,000 daleanime Nov 2012 #7
The "fiscal cliff" itself is a load of BS. vi5 Nov 2012 #2
Well said. Thanks for saying it so clearly and forcefully. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #16
If sequestration happens there will be major cuts to all government programs. DCBob Nov 2012 #27
So if it's settled on January 5th, or January 10th it's a cliff? vi5 Nov 2012 #29
To me too democrattotheend Nov 2012 #65
Again, I ask.... vi5 Nov 2012 #66
Good, that's true Turbineguy Nov 2012 #31
There is no common ground. vi5 Nov 2012 #55
I agree SoFlaJet Nov 2012 #69
I agree with you. Why didnt Dr. Dean LukeFL Nov 2012 #64
So am I denny1952 Nov 2012 #3
Compromise or capitulate? zipplewrath Nov 2012 #11
Tiresome Cary Nov 2012 #22
Can you explain how what they said was wrong? vi5 Nov 2012 #30
If you're going to tell me that you don't understand then... Cary Nov 2012 #32
No, I understood what they said. vi5 Nov 2012 #54
Exercise it more zipplewrath Nov 2012 #60
Where was Obama supposed to get the money to fund that project re: Gitmo? NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #62
I'm telling you it was capitulation not compromise zipplewrath Nov 2012 #75
You were implying, or saying, that Obama "capitulated" because he simply NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #76
Well he did have other options zipplewrath Nov 2012 #77
No, he didn't. He's been trying to get Congress to appropriate the funds and lift the NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #79
False dichotomy zipplewrath Nov 2012 #81
You always work so hard to be negative. n/t Cary Nov 2012 #84
DU inspires me zipplewrath Nov 2012 #85
Apparently. Cary Nov 2012 #86
Election day zipplewrath Nov 2012 #87
Understood Cary Nov 2012 #88
This Election WIN is Fantastic, Cary! You're Cha Nov 2012 #4
Leave it to Cha to pick me up! Cary Nov 2012 #6
Long time no see, Cary.. Cha Nov 2012 #10
Thanks again. :) Cary Nov 2012 #28
Yep.. this has been proven ad nauseum.. Cha Nov 2012 #41
Thanks. Some good threads to bookmark. vi5 Nov 2012 #20
Go back to for what? Cary Nov 2012 #33
Hopefully nothing because I will be wrong. vi5 Nov 2012 #56
Great link. Sums up how I've been feeling about the ever-wounded left. Politicub Nov 2012 #48
Glad you Cha Nov 2012 #53
I feel fine. I'm giving our folks a Raven Nov 2012 #8
What change did you expect? Beacool Nov 2012 #9
Well it's sure the F_ck better than this. Sky Masterson Nov 2012 #12
We're lucky that he didn't appoint one or both of them to high-level Administrative positions. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #17
That just sounds rediculous. Sky Masterson Nov 2012 #35
Irrelevant. vi5 Nov 2012 #19
EXACTLY! I've Ben trashing whiner threads left and right! Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2012 #13
I don't think many people on DU understand what being in charge of the Politicub Nov 2012 #50
I know. It's very frustrating. VERY!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Nov 2012 #58
Agree. Medicare -- and our health care system -- has needed an overhaul for a long time. Hoyt Nov 2012 #14
Getting people back to work, at better paying jobs, will do a lot too. Cary Nov 2012 #34
I agree with you 100%. I fear we are in long-term situation where full-employment is illusive. Hoyt Nov 2012 #38
We just lack the political will Cary Nov 2012 #40
The Election Changed Nothing AndyTiedye Nov 2012 #15
The election did change something.... vi5 Nov 2012 #23
And you'd feel the same way about a Medicare overhaul if Romney had won, right? MotherPetrie Nov 2012 #18
Anyone who has to use a hack coined term of fiction like 'fiscal cliff' to promote their Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #21
Explain to me why I should accept this from you. Cary Nov 2012 #24
Corporate scenery attempts to surround us. woo me with science Nov 2012 #71
Turn him OFF!!!! SoFlaJet Nov 2012 #25
Keep the faith LiberalFighter Nov 2012 #26
You have to remember who Ed Schultz is. He's afflicted with foot-in-mouth. Remember he was.... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #36
I hear you Cary Nov 2012 #43
Expressing concern for the elderly and sick is "squealing like a stuck pig"? forestpath Nov 2012 #37
Good grief. Cary Nov 2012 #42
"Discussion"? Trashing Ed for his reaction is not a disussion. forestpath Nov 2012 #44
if you can whine aboitnDavid Plouffe Cary Nov 2012 #45
I'm using Plouffe's own WORDS. I said not one word about him personally. forestpath Nov 2012 #47
Read this, be active and stop worrying about every little thing. jonthebru Nov 2012 #39
The term hasn't even fucking started Politicub Nov 2012 #46
The status quo won... what do you expect to happen? davidn3600 Nov 2012 #49
Better than Prez ROmney, GOP Senate, and GOP house. JoePhilly Nov 2012 #70
It was never very likely zipplewrath Nov 2012 #80
So I'm sure you will start a Progressive Prez 2016 DU group any day now, right? JoePhilly Nov 2012 #83
I am an active Labor supporter, but I don't listen to Ed. I doubt his respect for the Henry Wallace patrice Nov 2012 #51
I knew there would be no change....no warm fuzzies. lib2DaBone Nov 2012 #52
Don't let the buzzkill get you down union_maid Nov 2012 #57
Really? ellie Nov 2012 #59
Stop watching TV and you will feel better. Victoriious even. nt TeamPooka Nov 2012 #61
We've been hearing the same bullshit for 4 years now about SS/Medicare. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #63
+1 union_maid Nov 2012 #67
So if there are cuts... vi5 Nov 2012 #68
Predict when the cuts will occur please. JoePhilly Nov 2012 #72
I'm not saying he is definitely going to do it. vi5 Nov 2012 #73
Perfect example! treestar Nov 2012 #90
That's the problem. You nailed it. Cary Nov 2012 #74
+1 treestar Nov 2012 #89
I agree Proud Liberal Dem Nov 2012 #78
"Conservatives" are done. Cary Nov 2012 #82
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