Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

beerandjesus

(1,301 posts)
42. Actually, that's what I heard too.
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 06:11 PM
Nov 2015

And I do take your point, look forward not ahead, etc.; in my own life, and in how I judge the people I interact with day to day, that's something I strive for. (And I've noticed that a couple of the people I found to be quickest to lash out at anyone criticizing Obama, no matter how bad the policy, are now on my side of the Bernie-Hillary divide, and that makes me really happy.) However, I don't think that's a valid way to pick a president--if that's your logic, why not vote for Rubio? He doesn't seem like such a bad guy really, and maybe he'll come around on some of the crazier issues he's spouted off about to appease his base, just like we can hope that Hillary's sudden about-face on the TPP is genuine.

But again, your generation didn't say that about LBJ. You took his ass OUT. And I'm not saying that as an endorsement or a criticism, just as a fact.

Now, LBJ didn't just say, hey guys, it's kinda not cool to gun down unarmed black people; he signed the fucking Civil Rights Act when it was incredibly unpopular not just in his own party, but in his own STATE. In fact, he didn't just sign it when it got to his desk, while his supporters wrung their hands and lamented the fact that he just couldn't do it without Congress: He went out there and twisted people's arms. Yeah, the tide was turning slowly but surely, but he put his own balls on the line in a big way, in contrast with Hillary on gay marriage, where she was literally one of the last Democrats in the national party to come around on it.

Similarly, LBJ instituted the Great Society reforms, like Medicaid. Hillary's talking about baby steps like "re-financing" student debt, she's not talking about progressive reforms anywhere NEAR as bold as those of LBJ.

Yet, Vietnam sealed LBJ's fate. Again, I'm not passing judgment; I could argue either side of this one, but regardless, Vietnam was unarguably one of the most horrible things that's ever happened in American history. So.... given that Hillary didn't just read about Vietnam in the history books, but was old enough to remember the country's experience of Vietnam personally, and voted for the next generation's Vietnam ANYWAY... and given that Vietnam was THE defining issue for your generation, no matter what other great progressive reforms LBJ may have championed and instituted, I ask again:

How the hell can you rationalize voting for Hillary?

I'll be 70 yrs old in May 2016. [View all] upaloopa Nov 2015 OP
Um, Hillary has been "evolving" like crazy in the past 12 months. WTF are you talking about? Romulox Nov 2015 #1
Gotta agree with this. HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #2
You are wrong so there is that upaloopa Nov 2015 #8
More than a few observers have noticed Hills evolution 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #16
Did Bernie not evolve into a Democrat? bravenak Nov 2015 #9
No, democrats moved to positions Bernie has supported for years. daybranch Nov 2015 #25
No. I clearly heard him say 'I am now a Democrat!' bravenak Nov 2015 #26
I support HRC also for those beliefs & human rights passions she has always held. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #14
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #40
With President Hillary, things will get somewhat worse... TTP, no finance reform. Hoppy Nov 2015 #58
Not necessarily, with Hillary come her powerful women & men she has campaigned for. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #66
with Hillary comes a team of neo liberals who will privatise everything and continue the endless war Doctor_J Nov 2015 #82
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #97
I agree! leftofcool Nov 2015 #3
K & R upaloopa. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #4
Actually the best were bottom up and spontaneous daybranch Nov 2015 #45
No. "You apparently have a view of history that does not equate with facts. " misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #47
I'm 71, my wife is 75. We are aware and voting for Bernie or another progressive. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #5
So when Women have to turn control of their bodies over to Ted Cruz, you will come here and randys1 Nov 2015 #28
humbug. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #62
I am Voting for Bernie in the primary, so not sure what you mean randys1 Nov 2015 #63
Apologies freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #69
You say that every now and then artislife Nov 2015 #100
I will be 70 in April 2016 and I'm Feeling the Bern most definitely. bkkyosemite Nov 2015 #6
If you were in Vietnam, how can you rationalize her Iraq vote? beerandjesus Nov 2015 #7
Life is full of suffering. upaloopa Nov 2015 #11
Life is full of suffering, but VOTING to insure the death & suffering of over a million people 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #19
So a vote for Hillary is a vote for suffering? Hepburn Nov 2015 #24
Why do you have to constantly make up shit? upaloopa Nov 2015 #32
Actually, that's what I heard too. beerandjesus Nov 2015 #42
How the hell do you get off defining upaloopa Nov 2015 #93
Actually, I would really, really like to understand this. beerandjesus Nov 2015 #113
I said this before. The world is not either black or white. If you reduce everything to neat upaloopa Nov 2015 #117
Love this post. nt artislife Nov 2015 #103
Thanks! beerandjesus Nov 2015 #115
With this mindset, you will be best able to handle a republican win out of all of us here. artislife Nov 2015 #101
Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #31
Because they are different things at different times treestar Nov 2015 #85
So sometimes pointless wars of choice, justified by lies, are ok, and sometimes not? beerandjesus Nov 2015 #116
Completely different times treestar Nov 2015 #118
It sounds to me like you're reinforcing my point. beerandjesus Nov 2015 #119
You may have, and I applaud you for it. TM99 Nov 2015 #10
This simple black and white world you seem to think upaloopa Nov 2015 #12
You do realize that when it comes TM99 Nov 2015 #15
Damn straight. Spot on. Hillary or Bernie either voted FOR or AGAINST the Iraq War 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #27
So with a post like yours I assume you are in the camp of will support whoever the Dem randys1 Nov 2015 #30
I don't play the game you are trying to do here. n/t TM99 Nov 2015 #54
It took a whole country to evolve to get to upaloopa Nov 2015 #95
You fail to recognize yet again TM99 Nov 2015 #98
This is another great post! nt artislife Nov 2015 #104
Thank you. great post! nt 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #21
Actually, I don't believe her values have changed. Just her words. n/t winter is coming Nov 2015 #43
Bingo! n/t TM99 Nov 2015 #55
Amen. oasis Nov 2015 #13
We were also very much aware of how important DURHAM D Nov 2015 #17
Interesting and heres what I have to say Autumn Nov 2015 #18
+1.nt Snotcicles Nov 2015 #71
It was a wonderful post until I got to the last two sentences Autumn Nov 2015 #73
You are so fierce! artislife Nov 2015 #106
I will be 68 years old. Hepburn Nov 2015 #20
Recommended. It's a simple message that people who Hortensis Nov 2015 #22
Sorry, Tom Brokaw said it was a different generation artislife Nov 2015 #107
Well, we're not the the biggest generation for nothing. Hortensis Nov 2015 #110
You are not the biggest anymore... artislife Nov 2015 #120
Ulalula's right, you know. Some of us have been in it Hortensis Nov 2015 #121
With my background in economics and government, I'm inclined to disagree. mmonk Nov 2015 #23
Elaborate won't you? upaloopa Nov 2015 #29
What an inspiring and robust life you have led. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #33
True. If they did represent her as dignified as she is, there would be no bernie. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #34
You have a great background. mmonk Nov 2015 #35
Thanks for sharing that upaloopa Nov 2015 #50
No problem and best of luck to you. mmonk Nov 2015 #72
I think all of us on DU are good people we just upaloopa Nov 2015 #74
Excellent post! They don't represent her accurately. R B Garr Nov 2015 #88
But she voted to go into Iraq. Couldn't she see past the Republican smokescreen? The Wielding Truth Nov 2015 #36
Thank you for that upaloopa! MoonRiver Nov 2015 #37
I beat you there by a year, and grew up in Hillary's neck of the woods. hedda_foil Nov 2015 #38
Right? In what world is Park Ridge lower class? It's a wealthy suburb riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #48
No lower middle class family in the 50s-60s could even aspire to live in a house like the Rodham's. hedda_foil Nov 2015 #57
Lord, What a dump! Laughing Mirror Nov 2015 #112
This op is pretty far from the truth Doctor_J Nov 2015 #84
+ 1 senz Nov 2015 #96
+1 artislife Nov 2015 #108
.. PowerToThePeople Nov 2015 #39
I was 70 last year and I remember the depression stories of my mother hollysmom Nov 2015 #41
It does no good here but for the hell of it upaloopa Nov 2015 #65
Yes, the villification and demonization of Hillary Clinton... yallerdawg Nov 2015 #44
If you think Hillary Hatred is bad here... Hepburn Nov 2015 #46
Unm that statement is a broadbrush and doesn't reflect more than your friends & neighbors. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #51
And you know this only reflects my friends and neighbors? Hepburn Nov 2015 #59
I live in Alabama. yallerdawg Nov 2015 #52
It serves the personal satisfaction. Like mob mentality does. misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #53
It's the internet! yallerdawg Nov 2015 #56
Its the internet. What else is there to say misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #67
Interesting how someone who complains of others being rude and insulting has just got a time out Fumesucker Nov 2015 #76
Interesting how ... NanceGreggs Nov 2015 #80
There are plenty of Hillary supporters who have never had a hide Fumesucker Nov 2015 #83
"DU is a business ... NanceGreggs Nov 2015 #87
And all were good hides, no filler.nt artislife Nov 2015 #109
Don't even begin to think that you are more socially aware than we are. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2015 #49
Hillary's family was not lower middle class at all, upper middle class and comfortably so. Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #60
This 70 Year Old Won't Be Voting for Hillary McKim Nov 2015 #64
...^ that 840high Nov 2015 #70
+ 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!! WillyT Nov 2015 #81
in other words you're fully behind her thirdway ways stupidicus Nov 2015 #68
Well say what you need to upaloopa Nov 2015 #91
"....she stands for the same values as I do and they haven't changed all these years." Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #75
I find it interesting so many wants to compare Sanders to FDR, well, that would put Sanders in the Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #77
FDR was not a supporter off civil rights upaloopa Nov 2015 #90
Wrong comparison, eh? Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #94
How would you know what hillary stands for? what she stands for changes daily bowens43 Nov 2015 #78
You are wrong there is nothing else to say upaloopa Nov 2015 #89
Congratulations on approaching your 70th Kalidurga Nov 2015 #79
A lot of things said about Hillary on this board upaloopa Nov 2015 #86
Meanwhile... 99Forever Nov 2015 #92
Spoken like a true Boomer. nt artislife Nov 2015 #99
Kick Liberal_in_LA Nov 2015 #102
I will be 70 next March. As a woman, I did my share of struggling; my early years djean111 Nov 2015 #105
Amen... Hepburn Nov 2015 #123
I've got a couple years on you, BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #111
Thanks for sharing a little of the personal side. nt. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #114
Your saying literally that Hillary is Bernie Sanders Fearless Nov 2015 #122
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»I'll be 70 yrs old in May...»Reply #42