HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Progressive Pragmatism ve... » Reply #51

Response to MaggieD (Reply #47)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 07:35 PM

51. Yes, absolutely. If it were Clinton's plan, you would hail it as genius

 

It wouldn't be pie in the sky if you could make a credible case for how he passes it. And apparently you cannot.


How does any president get anything passed? It's a lot of up-front appeal and backroom arm-bending. Same way LBJ got the civil rights act implemented, against the greater part of both parties. it's how Obama got the ACA through, against the will of both parties - remember, Democrats weren't on uniformly board that one either - because (again) "It's too hard! republicans might not like it! Run away!"

Clinton also spit and snarled about Obama's healthcare plans in the '08 campaign, and her supporters called that "pie in the sky" and "never gonna happen" too.

So how is it not pie in the sky if he can't even get Dems to sign on 2 years into proposing it?


I think maybe a better angle is to ask, why aren't those Democrats on board? is single-payer really such an outrageous, abhorrent idea to our party? It really seems to disgust and enrage you. Why?

Don't just come back with silliness and deflection. It's a serious and important question. It really is no different than promising everyone a free pony.


Once again, I am reminded of 2008, and the "democrats" sneering at gay people about "wanting ponies." And now the lot of you all line up to act like you were on board from day one. it's fascinating.

And it is apparent to me that YOU don't know anything about union negotiations because they don't sit down at the table and ask for $500 bucks an hour when they are really after $50.


No, but if you talk to people who hate unions, you'll come away with the idea that they do. Sort of like when yalking to someone who hates Bernie Sanders, you'll come away with the idea that single payer is just like "asking for $500 an hour."

Overshoot is an integral part of negotiation. if you only come to the table with hte bare essentials, you will end up negotiating away those essentials. There's a finesse to it, you don't "go crazy" as with your nonsensical hyperbole, but you do ask for more than you expect to get out of the negotiations, in order to better ensure that you actually do get what you expect after it's all negotiated down. And if you get some of the extra too, hey, who's to complain?

Try that when you buy a house. Go look at million dollar houses and then make an offer of $250K. See how that pie in the sky works.


Trying to buy property from someone else, and negotiating for your rights as a worker (or a human being) aren't directly comparable, I hope you do understand that.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 190 replies Author Time Post
MaggieD Dec 2015 OP
NurseJackie Dec 2015 #1
Skidmore Dec 2015 #2
Rebkeh Dec 2015 #3
MaggieD Dec 2015 #5
Rebkeh Dec 2015 #11
MaggieD Dec 2015 #13
Rebkeh Dec 2015 #22
MaggieD Dec 2015 #23
Rebkeh Dec 2015 #26
MaggieD Dec 2015 #29
Rebkeh Dec 2015 #52
floriduck Dec 2015 #61
MaggieD Dec 2015 #77
floriduck Dec 2015 #164
floriduck Dec 2015 #167
bravenak Dec 2015 #97
MaggieD Dec 2015 #118
bravenak Dec 2015 #121
MaggieD Dec 2015 #124
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #160
bravenak Dec 2015 #176
Android3.14 Dec 2015 #153
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #159
leftofcool Dec 2015 #4
MaggieD Dec 2015 #6
LWolf Dec 2015 #7
AtomicKitten Dec 2015 #8
LWolf Dec 2015 #9
MaggieD Dec 2015 #12
Armstead Dec 2015 #55
MaggieD Dec 2015 #10
LWolf Dec 2015 #18
MaggieD Dec 2015 #45
Armstead Dec 2015 #60
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #104
LWolf Dec 2015 #144
Kentonio Dec 2015 #180
Skidmore Dec 2015 #17
LWolf Dec 2015 #20
MaggieD Dec 2015 #46
Armstead Dec 2015 #66
LWolf Dec 2015 #143
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #170
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #14
MaggieD Dec 2015 #15
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #24
upaloopa Dec 2015 #28
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #33
upaloopa Dec 2015 #38
MaggieD Dec 2015 #39
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #150
MaggieD Dec 2015 #34
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #36
MaggieD Dec 2015 #40
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #44
MaggieD Dec 2015 #47
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply Yes, absolutely. If it were Clinton's plan, you would hail it as genius
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #51
okasha Dec 2015 #68
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #71
okasha Dec 2015 #72
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #75
okasha Dec 2015 #78
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #84
okasha Dec 2015 #88
MaggieD Dec 2015 #80
Scootaloo Dec 2015 #85
MaggieD Dec 2015 #89
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #161
MaggieD Dec 2015 #187
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #151
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #16
MaggieD Dec 2015 #41
Hortensis Dec 2015 #19
Skwmom Dec 2015 #21
MaggieD Dec 2015 #31
anti partisan Dec 2015 #25
MaggieD Dec 2015 #30
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #105
MaggieD Dec 2015 #106
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #108
MaggieD Dec 2015 #109
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineReply .
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #110
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #152
name not needed Dec 2015 #27
MaggieD Dec 2015 #32
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #35
MaggieD Dec 2015 #49
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #56
MaggieD Dec 2015 #76
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #114
MaggieD Dec 2015 #115
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #116
MaggieD Dec 2015 #117
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #119
MaggieD Dec 2015 #125
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #129
MaggieD Dec 2015 #131
grasswire Dec 2015 #190
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #154
leftofcool Dec 2015 #62
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #65
alc Dec 2015 #37
MaggieD Dec 2015 #42
Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #54
MaggieD Dec 2015 #79
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #112
MaggieD Dec 2015 #132
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #139
MaggieD Dec 2015 #140
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #120
MaggieD Dec 2015 #133
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #182
Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #171
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #74
MaggieD Dec 2015 #82
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #111
MaggieD Dec 2015 #134
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #138
Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #168
WillyT Dec 2015 #43
MaggieD Dec 2015 #48
WillyT Dec 2015 #50
leftofcool Dec 2015 #63
MaggieD Dec 2015 #90
bravenak Dec 2015 #98
okasha Dec 2015 #73
ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #53
workinclasszero Dec 2015 #57
MaggieD Dec 2015 #93
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #58
leftofcool Dec 2015 #64
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #70
MaggieD Dec 2015 #94
Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #173
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #67
MaggieD Dec 2015 #95
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #99
MaggieD Dec 2015 #102
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #103
MaggieD Dec 2015 #87
Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #100
MaggieD Dec 2015 #101
earthside Dec 2015 #59
MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #69
Vattel Dec 2015 #81
artislife Dec 2015 #83
Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #86
Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #91
MaggieD Dec 2015 #92
Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #96
JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #107
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #122
MaggieD Dec 2015 #128
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #145
MaggieD Dec 2015 #126
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #147
Armstead Dec 2015 #113
MaggieD Dec 2015 #123
Armstead Dec 2015 #127
MaggieD Dec 2015 #130
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #149
BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #141
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #148
Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #135
MaggieD Dec 2015 #136
Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #137
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #155
Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #156
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #158
Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #162
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #163
baldguy Dec 2015 #142
AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #146
Kentonio Dec 2015 #157
MaggieD Dec 2015 #166
Kentonio Dec 2015 #172
Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #165
zipplewrath Dec 2015 #178
Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #181
zipplewrath Dec 2015 #183
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #169
Gothmog Dec 2015 #174
MaggieD Dec 2015 #175
Gothmog Dec 2015 #189
zipplewrath Dec 2015 #177
Prism Dec 2015 #179
sonofspy777 Dec 2015 #184
NurseJackie Dec 2015 #185
MaggieD Dec 2015 #186
Chan790 Dec 2015 #188
Please login to view edit histories.