2016 Postmortem

ismnotwasm

(41,952 posts)

53. I despise all conspiracy themes politics

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 08:48 PM

Dec 2015

Which is what far too many "elites" aka "more liberal than thou" espouse. Reducing complex situations to meme's and paranoia. It's frustrating and ridiculous at the same time. Pragmatism doesn't take away my liberal cred, it means I want solutions that will work.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

190 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Progressive Pragmatism versus Liberal Elitism [View all] MaggieD Dec 2015 OP

Wonderful!! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #1

Exactly. Skidmore Dec 2015 #2

Except Hillary is not progressive n/t Rebkeh Dec 2015 #3

Yes, she absolutely is MaggieD Dec 2015 #5

And her record is also conservative, that's my point Rebkeh Dec 2015 #11

Can you cite examples? MaggieD Dec 2015 #13

I could but Rebkeh Dec 2015 #22

As I suspected MaggieD Dec 2015 #23

If I thought you were Rebkeh Dec 2015 #26

I am genuinely interested in you backing up your claims MaggieD Dec 2015 #29

I cannot speak for other Bernie supporters Rebkeh Dec 2015 #52

And look for TPP to get her approval floriduck Dec 2015 #61

So despite the fact that.... MaggieD Dec 2015 #77

Your description of my floriduck Dec 2015 #164

You also need floriduck Dec 2015 #167

They always want people to go on quests to find info. bravenak Dec 2015 #97

LOL - that's because they have nothing MaggieD Dec 2015 #118

I feel like Mario in Super Mario Brothers. bravenak Dec 2015 #121

LOL - exactly MaggieD Dec 2015 #124

Actually that's what you do constantly AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #160

And you follow me to insult me. Constantly. bravenak Dec 2015 #176

Have you been asleep? here are confirmed examples of DINO Clinton Android3.14 Dec 2015 #153

Moderates aren't progressive AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #159

Excellent! leftofcool Dec 2015 #4

Thanks! MaggieD Dec 2015 #6

I disagree completely. LWolf Dec 2015 #7

+1 well said, thank you AtomicKitten Dec 2015 #8

You're welcome. LWolf Dec 2015 #9

So then my question in post #10 is for you as well MaggieD Dec 2015 #12

TPP....GOLD STANDARD....'nuf said. Armstead Dec 2015 #55

Okay, so I will ask you the same question.... MaggieD Dec 2015 #10

What do you mean by LWolf Dec 2015 #18

So let's look at the TPP MaggieD Dec 2015 #45

In your dreams Armstead Dec 2015 #60

Our government is supposed to work for the best of our people, not Asian countries' people. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #104

Wrong. LWolf Dec 2015 #144

You seem to have forgotten to mention.. Kentonio Dec 2015 #180

After all the mocking of Hillary and her supporters for mentioning Skidmore Dec 2015 #17

No. LWolf Dec 2015 #20

So which of his proposals do you think he can actually pass? MaggieD Dec 2015 #46

Read about his performance as Mayor of Burlington Armstead Dec 2015 #66

These things have been posted repeatedly here at DU. LWolf Dec 2015 #143

Cite to a single progressive piece of legislation ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #170

Counter-negotiating yourself before even sitting down isn't "pragmatism." Scootaloo Dec 2015 #14

Has nothing to do with that MaggieD Dec 2015 #15

it has EVERYTHING to do with that Scootaloo Dec 2015 #24

You make the OP's case upaloopa Dec 2015 #28

Giving up without even trying is not pragmatism. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #33

I'm sure you can read upaloopa Dec 2015 #38

Expanding the ACA is not giving up MaggieD Dec 2015 #39

They believe capitulation is pragmatism AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #150

So you think wasting time is okay? MaggieD Dec 2015 #34

I think constantly being in retreat from Republicans is reprehensible. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #36

But you haven't explained who benefits from pie in the sky MaggieD Dec 2015 #40

You define "pie in the sky" as "Whatever my candidate isn't lauding" Scootaloo Dec 2015 #44

Not at all and you know it MaggieD Dec 2015 #47

Yes, absolutely. If it were Clinton's plan, you would hail it as genius Scootaloo Dec 2015 #51

Johnson was able to bend arms successfully okasha Dec 2015 #68

The question was "how is it done." Scootaloo Dec 2015 #71

Dead wrong. okasha Dec 2015 #72

Except clinton has no plans to try. That's the problem Scootaloo Dec 2015 #75

You're still missing the point. okasha Dec 2015 #78

$11 is even more realistic. Why not $9.09? Super-realistic! How about scrip at Wal-mart? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #84

Yep, living wage. okasha Dec 2015 #88

You never addressed that MaggieD Dec 2015 #80

Alright, i'll play. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #85

Bernie? MaggieD Dec 2015 #89

You are not in reality AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #161

Oh I am - reality has a liberal bias MaggieD Dec 2015 #187

You call actual governing pie in the sky? AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #151

Thank you for your BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #16

You're welcome MaggieD Dec 2015 #41

Hillary's definitely a pragmatic progressive. Hortensis Dec 2015 #19

A Corporate Democrat that serves the Corps and 1% to the detriment of the 99% is NOT a Progressive Skwmom Dec 2015 #21

Give me a concrete example of what makes her a "corporate" Democrat? MaggieD Dec 2015 #31

Bernie is pragmatic and Hillary is not progressive. Other than that, I still don't agree. (nt) anti partisan Dec 2015 #25

Give me an example of one of his proposals that can pass MaggieD Dec 2015 #30

With sufficient voters turning out in the elections to elect democratic majorities? Anything. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #105

So again, which of his proposals can pass? MaggieD Dec 2015 #106

When I say Anything I mean any and all of his proposals. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #108

But you're not getting pro Bernie Dems in congress MaggieD Dec 2015 #109

. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #110

Bypass congress AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #152

Hillary Clinton as an enemy of elitism. Give me a fucking break. name not needed Dec 2015 #27

I don't think she dislikes elitists MaggieD Dec 2015 #32

progressive pragmatist take their money from Wall Street while liberal elitist take their money Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #35

Nah, there are lots of rich liberal elites MaggieD Dec 2015 #49

oh there are!! Although I never personally met one but sure the hell wish I was one Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #56

Not a "few" by any means MaggieD Dec 2015 #76

the core of Bernie's campaign are the grassroots activist. Though I have made it a habit to avoid Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #114

Who accomplish absolutely nothing MaggieD Dec 2015 #115

just a bit premature to say that now, isn't it? Some seem to equate pushing the progressive agenda Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #116

Not all at - 25 years to show he can't accomplish anything is not enough time? MaggieD Dec 2015 #117

the people of Vermont who keep reelecting him by overwhelming landslides don't agree Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #119

Great - maybe he can be president of Vermont then MaggieD Dec 2015 #125

I pledge to support Hillary if she is the nominee? Do you pledge to support Bernie if he is the Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #129

Absolutely not MaggieD Dec 2015 #131

WHERE IS THE TOMBSTONE FOR THIS POSTER? grasswire Dec 2015 #190

That is a lie AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #154

George Soros leftofcool Dec 2015 #62

Is he supporting Bernie or anyone from the left-wing of the Democratic Party? His fortune largely Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #65

We need both and everything in between alc Dec 2015 #37

I'm not sure that is true MaggieD Dec 2015 #42

This LGBT activist who was out and active way back to the late 70's disagrees with you very strongly Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #54

No you weren't MaggieD Dec 2015 #79

You don't know what he was up to then and you sure have no business claiming he was not an activist. Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #112

I know thousand of real LGBT activists MaggieD Dec 2015 #132

that's not what others remember. Practically every LGBT person I know likes Bernie and Hillary Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #139

Then they weren't actual activists MaggieD Dec 2015 #140

You obviously upset someone. Of course that's not hard to do these days. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #120

I got a hide earlier for posting about Bernie's..... MaggieD Dec 2015 #133

Supporters of other candidates are woefully outnumbered on the internet, so it's to be expected. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2015 #182

I note that you hurl venonous accusations but never any evidence or specificity. HRC? Not my folks. Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #171

"Stonewall means gay people want incremental progress!!" Remember that chant? I sure do. Just like Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #74

What a ridiculous analogy MaggieD Dec 2015 #82

One does not push for the minimum of what they can get to accomplish the goal - they push for the Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #111

One also does not pander to voters with pie in the sky MaggieD Dec 2015 #134

there was a time when social security was pie in the sky and gay marriage was certainly pie in the Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #138

The Stonewall activists were not thinking of marriage at all, Mags, they wanted the cops to stop Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #168

Liberal Elitism... WillyT Dec 2015 #43

Well you also had no idea that.... MaggieD Dec 2015 #48

I Never Said Anybody Was Stupid...I Just Suggested They May Be Voting Against Themselves... WillyT Dec 2015 #50

Uh, no you did not. leftofcool Dec 2015 #63

I can assure you, I am an LGBT person who is far, far from stupid MaggieD Dec 2015 #90

Very offensive!!!! bravenak Dec 2015 #98

Thread winner. okasha Dec 2015 #73

I despise all conspiracy themes politics ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #53

Great post workinclasszero Dec 2015 #57

Thank you MaggieD Dec 2015 #93

Hillary and her rich asshole buddies are the elitists. You fool no one. Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #58

You mean like John Lewis? leftofcool Dec 2015 #64

John Lewis turned his back on Hillary Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #70

Digging up some 8 year old article? MaggieD Dec 2015 #94

Here is what John Lewis said as he cast his No vote on DOMA: Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #173

John Lewis endorsed Clinton because he thinks she will win. Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #67

So do all her other endorsers MaggieD Dec 2015 #95

I am just saying it's not a big deal and that throwing around John Lewis as a defense of stupid Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #99

But Killer Mike is a "big deal" MaggieD Dec 2015 #102

Actually no and if you looked up my posts on Killer Mike I said it was cool but wouldn't change much Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #103

Reality check - it's Bernie who isn't fooling anyone MaggieD Dec 2015 #87

You seem really scared and insecure considering how well Clinton is doing in the polls. Perhaps you Bread and Circus Dec 2015 #100

You are mistaken MaggieD Dec 2015 #101

Opposite World. earthside Dec 2015 #59

Well said. K&R. n/t MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #69

Yes, because supporting the invasion of Iraq was so pragmatic. (sarcasm) Vattel Dec 2015 #81

Another surprising OP. artislife Dec 2015 #83

What do you mean by "progressive" versus "liberal"? Sanders is more progressive and more liberal Attorney in Texas Dec 2015 #86

"liberal elitism" a phrase created in conservaative think tanks why use it? and if you want to see Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #91

And I hate that Bernie co-opted the Dem party MaggieD Dec 2015 #92

And I hate that Hillary is turning the Democratic party Republican and blaiming liberals for it. Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #96

Stain of McGovern? How dare you. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #107

the stain of McGovern? I am on DU now, am I not? Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #122

I think you're on BU MaggieD Dec 2015 #128

he was the first campaign that Bill and Hillary really threw themselves into Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #145

Well Bernie is NOT a DEM MaggieD Dec 2015 #126

It doesn't bother me I'm not a purist AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #147

You hate him for running against Clinton...Thats all Armstead Dec 2015 #113

I loathe him for reasons having nothing to do with Hillary MaggieD Dec 2015 #123

Well I guess he's just Satan Armstead Dec 2015 #127

He is in no way worthy of my vote MaggieD Dec 2015 #130

He isn't right wing enough apparently AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #149

This one resonates a LOT for me. BlueMTexpat Dec 2015 #141

Bizarro world AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #148

Pragmatism and opportunism are two different things. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #135

Really? The guy who declared over and over he wasn't a Dem MaggieD Dec 2015 #136

No: he is principled. He sided with the Dems, but maintained his own Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #137

That person is shackled by purity AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #155

If that person's reasoning is considered pure, consider my mind impure! Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #156

That person calls for Democratic purity AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #158

Well, let's be forgiving when (s)he comes around. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #162

Indeed! AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #163

k&r baldguy Dec 2015 #142

Right wing deals are not pragmatic, they are stupid AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #146

This op nicely sums up everything that is wrong with the Democratic party today Kentonio Dec 2015 #157

Elitists want us to live in a dream world MaggieD Dec 2015 #166

The only 'elites' around here are you champagne liberals Kentonio Dec 2015 #172

I would counter that Obama was NOT the pragmatic choice early on, by any stretch Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #165

I almost never agree with you zipplewrath Dec 2015 #178

Almost never agree with ME? I hardly ever post at all, rarely if ever start a discussion. Turn CO Blue Dec 2015 #181

Sorry, bad eyesight zipplewrath Dec 2015 #183

K&R ...for truth ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #169

The concept of viability needs to play a role in this discussion Gothmog Dec 2015 #174

Well I don't like him at all, but I agree MaggieD Dec 2015 #175

I lived throught those days. Gothmog Dec 2015 #189

Triangulation zipplewrath Dec 2015 #177

I have never seen a so-called LGBT "activist" know so little of LGBT history before Prism Dec 2015 #179

The only thing that is progressive about Hillarot sonofspy777 Dec 2015 #184

I love this post so much! (Kick) NurseJackie Dec 2015 #185

Thank you! MaggieD Dec 2015 #186

The premise of your article makes my face twitch furiously as a political scientist. Chan790 Dec 2015 #188